RSSEh? Galician? That’s not a language!
Thinking about escaping the rat race for a few days, I was idily visiting a few Spanish Tourism websites about the northwest coast. Now here’s a funny thing - all the “official” tourism websites for Galicia come up in that strange dialect of Castellano they call “Galego”. And to make sense of what they’re saying, you have to click the “translate to Spanish” button.
Why? I’m going there on holiday, so of course I don’t speak Galego. It’s just annoying. And petty. And just for that I think I’ll go to the Basque country. Who put their website in Spanish, ironically enough.
NOTE 20/08: After a record 115 comments, I’ve had a thought! Read it.
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August 9th, 2008 at 9:57 am
Shame. Most people here are completely bilingual but prefer to speak in Castellano. You would have zilch problems, despite the impression given by the web pages.
August 11th, 2008 at 2:39 pm
Maybe if you did some research you’d find that Galician is not a dialect but a language in it’s own right, with a history predating even that of the Spanish language. It is perfectly normal for a website in Galicia to be in Galician, but if you’re too much of a lazy dickhead to click on the “in Spanish” button, it’s a bit too much to expect you to appreciated these finer details.
August 11th, 2008 at 2:49 pm
Having just looked at this site I see that it’s available in 9 different languages, including English and Spanish which demonstrates considerable effort to make the site accessible to as many people as possible. A very large proportion (if not the majority) of visitors to Galicia are people of Galician descent — it is therefore logical that the default page on this site would be in the language of Galicia, rather than in Spanish.
August 11th, 2008 at 3:51 pm
Really? So you say it’s because the tourist board of Galicia is trying to attract Galicians and nobody else? Even the País Vasco tourist board puts their website in Spanish first! (And has the other language buttons above)
Why? It’s because they’re trying to attract tourists! And tourists usually come from outside the region.
The only reason it’s in Gallego is because of pandering from local nationalist groups who are trying to attract votes and are happily saying “look at us! We’d rather promote ourselves using a language nobody understands to make a point to Madrid then actually spend your tax euros on bringing in tourists!”
I have no problem with it being an option - I’m saying that from a web usability point of view it’s another click the user has to go through every time they visit. Which is bad design. Unless, of course, the vast majority of tourists to the area are Gallego speakers and they aren’t interested in bringing in anybody else, in which case my point is null and I admit it.
And, IMHO, I don’t consider Gallego (or Fala as they insist upon calling it) a proper language. It’s a latin dialect that is so very heavily influenced by Portuguese and Castellano that it has converted, gramatically and structurally, to Castellano, retaining aspects of its original vocabulary.
You could argue all day about it, but I don’t really give a monkeys. Nor could any of my friends from Galicia, who only argue it’s a language to keep the cocky Andalucians down.
August 12th, 2008 at 3:18 pm
Maybe it is poor marketing, in which case it would make more sense if it were in English as the default, either way, that does not give you licence to dismiss the Galician language as “not being a proper language”. Take a look at Visitwales.org and it’s much the same thing — you have to select your langauge before you go any further and both Welsh and Catalan are options (neither of which are perhaps proper languages in your eyes).
You clearly do not have any understanding of the history of Galician language (in speech, print, song etc), which predates the Portuguese language and has existed alongside Portuguese for 700 years, (since Portuguese independence) and Spanish for over 1500 years.
Galician is no more a dialect of Latin than Portuguese, Spanish or Romanian are, and to suggest that it is a dialect of Spanish is as ridiculous as saying that Dutch is a dialect of English.
August 12th, 2008 at 9:49 pm
‘Axe Grinder’ doesn’t sound like the sort of pseudonym chosen by a peaceful person so, for my part, I shall throw in the towel and agree to learn some obscure and pointless language each and every time before I leave to go on holiday anywhere. I now appreciate why Rome fell (after many hundreds of years), people were evidently sick of speaking and being understood in Latin and felt that it was the citizens of the Roman empire’s obligation to learn Welsh, Fuzzi Wuzzi and Cherokee.
Queue, Stage Left, the Dark Ages…
August 13th, 2008 at 1:59 am
You clearly don’t appreciate any culture that doesn’t pertain to a major world language or colonial power, English and maybe Spanish. Or maybe you simply don’t appreciate any culture at all, which would explain why you live in the stink hole of Spain.
August 13th, 2008 at 9:10 am
You know, a while ago some nutter was trying to tell me Andalucian was a “language” and deserved to be an independent country on that historic basis. Stop living in the past man. Or are you one of the nationalist politicians I was railing against and are afraid I might open peoples eyes to your lies and deceits?
August 13th, 2008 at 9:49 pm
You clearly don’t know the difference between a language and a dialect, and I not prepared to waste my time explaining the differences to you or justifying the already founded, officially recognised (by millions of people and institutions) and historically documented existence of Galician as a bona fide language. Maybe you should read up some basic text books on linguistics before offending masses of people just because they prefer not to speak Spanish or English as their main language.
As for “living in the past”, I think your attitude is more antiquated, given it’s more in line with that of the Victorians who wanted the whole world to speak English (to them Indians just barked rather than spoke a language) or the Nazis who would have had you speaking German instead of your English “dialect” had they have won the war. Lies? Deceit? Not sure what you’re talking about (maybe it’s the sunstroke), but you have already proved that you are a twat so I’ll put it down to that.
August 14th, 2008 at 9:09 am
Excuse me? So first I’m a dickhead, then a twat, then a Nazi? This from some person who doesn’t even have the common courtesy to leave a proper name or alias or email, and lives in the UK? What are you, a member of the Cornwall Independence Front?
A common form of spelling of Galician wasn’t even decided upon until 1906! And that was only because in the late 19th century the “Rexurdimiento” poets started writing poetry in Galician. In any case, as I said before, I couldn’t care less. Call it a language if you want, it’s irrelevant to me. Couldn’t give a toss (excuse language).
All I care about are people like you who try to stir up nationalist sentiments just to try to justify the fact that you have no friends. THAT’S how the Nazis (and IRA!) started, you know. And it’s bloody pathetic. We’re going into a recession and all the nationalist parties do is bleat on about how it’s all Madrids (or Londons, or Paris) fault. Instead of trying to stimulate local economies, which you’re supposed to care about.
August 14th, 2008 at 11:29 am
Hey, guys.
If you go to any one of various sites about the distinction between language and dialect, it will tell you it’s rather pointless/academic. Every language is a dialect of an earlier one. It’s all to do with politics. Armies and navies, as they say. Or where you are sitting. Or - as I said years ago on the issue of whether Gallego is a dialect of Portuguese or vice versa - on which side of the Miño/Minho you are standing.
I have a lot of views about Galician Nationalism and the politicisation of language here but I couldn’t care less whether you can label Gallego a real language or not. In practice, it doesn’t make a whit of difference to what is being done - rightly or wrongly - in real life. And it just clouds the issue to argue about a pointless distinction. Or distinctions, As far as I know - and have reported - there are several different Gallegos, the least spoken being the one theorised about by the Galician Royal Academy. And the next least spoken being that taught in schools as standard Gallego. for which we have to thank the transformation of ‘gracias’ into ‘grazas’, for example.
Pure politics.
But, as I say, there are more useful things to get in a lather about . . . .
August 14th, 2008 at 12:01 pm
Thank you Colin. Exactly what I meant, from an older and wiser head then mine.
August 14th, 2008 at 1:03 pm
First, what Collin says above is correct. All languages are dialects but NOT all dialects are languages. What you write suggests your understanding of a dialect to be “not a proper language” — Galician is as much a dialect as Spanish or English, but no more “not a proper language” than either. It is also arguably though also a dialect of Portuguese, but only in the same way that Swedish is could be said to be a dialect of Danish.
Of course, nationalism is an important factor, but it’s not just Galician nationalists that stick their feet in. If it wasn’t for Spanish nationalists, Galician would have a spelling system much more like that of Portuguese (e.g. nh and lh instead of ñ and ll) and would possibly even have been officially recognised as a form of the Portuguese language.
Colin–three forms of Galician? That’s far fewer than the number of variants of English, Spanish or most other languages I could name (and different English spelling systems for that matter). Although, the Galician academy does seem to be almost as out of touch as the French academy.
Second, David, I’m not sure how I’m trying to stir up nationalist sentiments, when you’re the one dismissing one of the main components of a common culture shared by about 3 million people. It’s attitudes like that; intolerance, a view that smaller cultures should be subservient to larger nation state cultures; or that someone is more backward or stupid simply based on what language they speak that are the true roots of extremist nationalism — I wonder if the hatred the murdering British soilders felt during the Crooke Park masacre was driven by the thought that Gaelic football “isn’t proper football”?
Your comment about the Galician is an incredible oversight for someone living in Spain (you’ll see what I mean if you look at the reaction to similar comments made by a Deportivo footballer about the Galician and Catalan languages: http://chuza.org/historia/sergio-xogador-do-deportivo-o-galego-e-un-dialecto-igual-ca-o-catalan-2/ ).
Third, no I am not a member of the Cornish nationalist front if there is one (this would be as excentric as being an Andalucian nationalist and wouldn’t make much sense as a Londoner); I have enough friends; like to get into a lather about more things; but don’t give a toss about the economy until I start getting poorer.
August 14th, 2008 at 2:38 pm
Thank you Axe for that measured reply. If you are English I must compliment you on knowing so much about Galicia; if you are Galician I must compliment you on your English.
However, I still fell that you’re making a mistake comparing “three or more variants of Gallego” to the different spelling of English or Spanish (Castellano). English has many dialects because different English speakers from across the world have evolved their form of the language. If you left it long enough, English would evolve from the current dialects into separate languages, in the same way that Latin did.
Why?
While Gallego has been around for a long time, it was not properly “pinned down” in linguistic terms (spelling, grammar, vocabulary) until 1906, with the formation of the “Real Academia Gallega” and the first dictionaries. This was due to the strong nationalist influence that raged across Spain after the final collapse of its empire and the war with the US, in which in an attempt to define themselves intellectuals and politicians looked inwards, back to their roots, rather then towards the failed (as it appeared at that moment) Spanish kingdom. Until then, it was mainly an oral language (ignoring the 19th century poets, who used the language spoken by their relatives or friends, and earlier works of the 17th century, which were also poetical in nature, but which rarely manage to agree on spelling). Gallego evolved because a small population was cut off in the mountains and spoke their own version of Latin, but heavily influenced by the more dominant languages (Castellano, Portuguese) spoken by their neighbors. Which is why it shares so many similarities with Portuguese and Castellano, and is why it’s underlying grammatical roots are Castellano.
Unlike Catalan, which was spoken by more people, in a far richer area, and with two quite different languages, French and Castellano (which are far more separate then Portuguese and Castellano). Which allowed it to evolve further and develop a stronger cultural identity.
Since Latin (or later on, Leones and Castellano) was spoken by the ruling elite in Galicia, Gallego never had the chance to take off as a written language, since all official correspondence was in the language of the elite. This is furthermore demonstrated by the fact that a)there are so many forms of Gallego, despite attempts throughout the last century to unify them; b) to a certain extent a number of these types of Gallego are spoken similar to common Latin as spoken 5th-10th century a.d., others to Castellano or Portuguese depending on their location; c) the modifications of Gallego from Latin to current days version(s) mimic the developments in Portuguese and Castellano. Hence it appears that Gallego was an oral language used in verbal transaction between locals, although there were strong differences between communities (a similar effect was observed in early 20th century USA, where small villages developed their own versions of English to an extent that they could not be understood by another village 20 miles away); and that Latin/Leones/Portuguese/Castellano/whatever was used in official and written business.
As an example, I have only this week ever read anything in Gallego. But that link you sent me, as a Castellano speaker, I could read with almost no problems. Send the same link in Catalan and I’m stuffed.
Now, the distinction as to whether or not it’s a “language” is on one level an academic one, which is strongly influenced by ones personal attitude and mentality; on another a bitter issue which concentrates not on the language but on ones own sense of identity and wellbeing. For example, I spoke last night to my Catalan brother in law (a psychiatrist and strong Catalan nationalist) and he doesn’t think it’s a language either, but agrees it has strong and elderly roots. (Most of the Andalucians I’ve spoken to just shrug, it’s irrelevant to them.) You do think it’s a language, and that’s fine, and I don’t give the proverbial caber toss, as neither of us are deciding on whether or not to fund this.
Now, as for the nationalist part, I’m worried about the whole European economy going down the pan, but the Gallician nationalists are complaining about having to put Castellano on a street sign warning you of road works. Which is not how I want a government to work. It’s similar to Chicken Little crying about how the sky is falling. They, and it’s a common tactic from many smaller nationalist parties from across the world (not just Galicia!) are trying to divert the real issue, which is working together in a multicultural environment for the common good, to “vote for me otherwise those bastards from the capital city will steamroll over you and leave you for dead”. It’s a rallying call that anybody who speaks the language can understand.
To return to my original post, the politician who ordered the design of the Galicia Tourism webpage must have taken a decision to make it appear first in Gallego, not Spanish or English. If they had wanted to, they could have automatically changed the language depending on where you are connecting from, or the language your browser is in. But no, they said “Gallego!”. Unlike the more enlightened brethren along the coast. Methinks they do protest too much!
I’m not from a minority culture, but I respect and admire local traditions and think it’s a crying shame they’re vanishing so quickly. But rejecting out of hand the central culture is not the answer, Galicia and the rest of Spain have been together for a long time - can you remember when Galicia was a separate kingdom? Nor can I without looking it up. And inflaming local sentiment to levels like this is counterproductive - not only do the Castellano speakers get annoyed, but the other minority speakers (Eusquera, Catalan). Spain guarantees freedom of speech and teaching of the separate languages in it’s constitution, and I believe you can learn “standard” Gallego in public schools in Galicia, Asturias and parts of Castilla Leon.
And before you start to complain about how the “sinkpot” of Spain is forcing it’s own identity onto Galicia, and how Madrid forced Galicians to drop their language and adopt an artificial spelling system, just remember that Franco was Galician, from a Gallego and Portuguese speaking family, and didn’t seem concerned about it.
August 14th, 2008 at 2:49 pm
There you go: http://www.minutodigital.com/actualidad2/2008/07/02/el-pp-vasco-reacciona-contra-la-imposicion-linguistica/
Even the locals are starting to wake and smell the coffee.
August 14th, 2008 at 5:21 pm
And - as Maude Flanders once said - ‘won’t anyone think of the children?’ Poor little tykes; they’ll grow up and won’t be able to seek work outside Orense unless they keep their noses to their, uh, English lessons.
Bit like Latin again.
To David - well done. Bags of research. That showed ‘em!
August 15th, 2008 at 10:32 am
My congratulations to everyone for not only calming down but providing fascinating data and views. More please.
I do, though, disagree that having 3 [actually at least 5] different forms of Gallego in little Galicia is equivalent to have different forms of English emerging on a multi-billion world stage.
I can 100% sympathise with Galleguistas and what I call [small n]nationalists who want to promote their language and culture. But I reject the right of the [large n]Nationalist who don’t have the courage to call for secession to take this to the point of forcing it on us and suppressing our use of Spanish simply because we live in that part of Spain called Galicia. I don’t think they have either the legal or moral right to do this. In this it is no different from what Franco did.
Now, if they demanded and got succession from Spain, things would be very different and they could do whatever the Galician population accepted. But they are not going to do this, are they, as it would cost them votes and they would lose what power they currently have. In other words, they sell their soul for a mess of pottage, knowing full well that most Gallegos are afraid of losing the ’solidarity’ of the folk whose language the BNG is trying to suppress with its Orwellian Language Normalisation program. Which, of course, they dress up as something which it isn’t.
Lenox: That, in fact, is the aspiration of the true Nationalists - viz. that the kids are totally fluent in Gallego and English so that they can operate well both locally and internationally, though not necessarily in, say, Castile. They would know Spanish about as well as an average 16 year British kid knows a language studied for O level. They think this would be no bad thing as they operate from a basis of resentment that Spanish was ever allowed to gain the strength it did in ‘Galiza’. To them it counts for little that their employment prospects in the rest of Spain would be minimal. As one said ‘The language and culture are more important than economics’. Which is an easy view for, say, a young man/woman living at his/her parents’ expense. Not so easy when you need employment and your English has to compete with that of many, many others outside Spain.
Actually, I’m beginning to despise the BNG for the dishonesty of it all. Nice individuals as they are.
August 15th, 2008 at 2:39 pm
Well, I am yet to meet a Galician under the age of 60 who is unable to speak Spanish as well –or often better– than people in other parts of Spain, regardless of what language they are taught at school. The same is true of Catalonia and the Balearics, where policy has gone significantly further.
Spanish is easily acquired through osmosis in all of these regions. The same cannot be said of Galician.
In Galicia there is a group who misleadingly go by the name of “Galicia Bilingue” who effectively a bunch of old Francoists against any implementation of the Galician language, and rarely speak Galician. They are for an apartheid language system in schools, where only one language is used as a vehicular language, whether Galician or Spanish. A system which would create a geographic and economic split within Galicia itself. Conversely, the Nationalists, who you are trying to tait as wanting to eradicate Galician, are in favour of bilingual teaching in ALL schools, so that ALL children can master both languages. It’s a policy that was supported by the PSOE and the PP on introduction.
Just because a nationalist run council will sometimes use just Galician for what ever given purpose, (whether it’s a website, signs, leaflets), it doesn’t mean they are trying to eradicate the use of Spanish. Likewise, the far greater use of Spanish in public life doesn’t constitute an act of deliberately trying to eradicate Galician (even if that does become the undesired result). I am yet to read about a mainstream nationalist (from the BNG) who has suggested the use of Spanish should be banned or eradicated in Galicia.
Oh, and Lenox, the problem in Galicia, historically, and still today, has been that the little tykes have ONLY been able to get work outside Galicia rather than in it — I’m still finding them all the time as staff in the coffeeshops and restaurants of London. However, unlike others in Spain, Galicians have had a significant influence in Brazil (e.g. at least 2 football clubs named after Galicia; the word “galega” can be used to refer to anyone who is fairer than the average Brazilian or just of European descent, or do a Google Search for “Salvador” and “afrogalega”) and Portuguese speaking Africa, in addition to Spanish speaking Latin America — I’d therefore say that being able to speak Galician rather than being monolingually Spanish has probably helped them.
August 15th, 2008 at 2:40 pm
Sorry, I meant to say “Conversely, the Nationalists, who you are trying to taint as wanting to eradicate SPANISH”
August 15th, 2008 at 3:37 pm
Axe Grinder,
Thanks again for additional measured comments and some more insights.
But, while I am able to readily agree with you on some points, with others I am less convinced.
Some questions:-
1. Do you have proof that the G B organisation is really a group of un-reconstructed Francoists? This canard is hurled so often from the Left that I have ceased to believe it whenever I hear it. Can there be many of them left alive? Do you simply mean extreme right wingers and, if so, the question of proof still remains.
2. Why is it that virtually everything issued by the Xunta for local consumption is solely in Gallego. Take the Bantegal site, for example. http://www.bantegal.es Ditto the Facenda forms and guides. Plus every letter I ever get from the Xunta/council.
3. Do you think that the Galescolas are really designed to further bilinguism? Or do they just teach Spanish like everything else, for a few hours a week and in Gallego?
4. If Galescolas are OK, why is one form of apartheid acceptable and not another?
5. Why does the BNG mayor of Pontevedra decline to talk in Spanish? Forget this one; you can’t possibly know his motives any more than I can.
6. Why aren’t matters left to the choice of the parents as to what language[s] their kids speak at home and/or are taught in in school?
7. Is it really necessary to eschew Spanish whenever you can and prevent others from using it in order to promote Gallego?
8. Why burden [some] kids with the task of having to master a second language sufficiently well that they can be efficiently taught in it? I fancy the only honest answer to this and the previous 2 questions is “That we fear otherwise Gallego would lose out to Spanish and possibly wither away as the population ages/dies and fewer and fewer kids pick it up from their Gallego-speaking grandparents.”
You’re right, no one has ever come out in favour of suppressing Spanish but this would be political suicide, given how many people here are totally bilingual and proud of it. As I will be when I am, in about 10 years time - through learning and osmosis [and I disagree that Gallego can't be picked up by osmosis as - thanks to the BNG! - it is very possible if you want, for example, to read and understand Modelo 600 for payment of you property transfer tax. Unlike richer/smarter locals, I don't leave this to a gestor.
I could probably think of a few more questions but I have to have my siesta now!
Cheers.
PS Isn't 'Gallego' used to mean 'Spanish' throughout S America [especially Argentina] because of the massive emigrations?
August 15th, 2008 at 3:45 pm
David,
I forgot to answer your response — there are a few inaccuracies and facts that you have not fully researched:
“However, I still fell that you’re making a mistake comparing “three or more variants of Gallego” to the different spelling of English or Spanish (Castellano). English has many dialects because different English speakers from across the world have evolved their form of the language.”
– The distance from Liverpool to Manchester or Manchester to Leeds, is less than the distance from Vigo to Coruña, yet there is far greater variation in the English that is spoken in these places.
“While Gallego has been around for a long time, it was not properly “pinned down” in linguistic terms (spelling, grammar, vocabulary)”
– Except for grammar, this is largely true, although disagreement over spelling and vocabulary are due to 500 years of not having no official status in society, and in the case of vocabulary, regional variations that you’d find with any language.
“until 1906, with the formation of the “Real Academia Gallega” and the first dictionaries. This was due to the strong nationalist influence that raged across Spain after the final collapse of its empire and the war with the US, in which in an attempt to define themselves intellectuals and politicians looked inwards, back to their roots, rather then towards the failed (as it appeared at that moment) Spanish kingdom.”
–This is possibly a factor, but the Rexurdimento of the mid-1800s long predates the loss of the Spanish-American war in 1898 and follows similar movements in the British Isles and other parts of Europe.
“Until then, it was mainly an oral language (ignoring the 19th century poets, who used the language spoken by their relatives or friends, and earlier works of the 17th century, which were also poetical in nature, but which rarely manage to agree on spelling).”
–This ignores the whole of the period up until the early 15th century, during which Galician was effectively the sole language of Galicia, and enjoyed the same status as Spanish in the Christian ruled parts of Castille and Portuguese in Portugal.
“Gallego evolved because a small population was cut off in the mountains and spoke their own version of Latin, but heavily influenced by the more dominant languages (Castellano, Portuguese) spoken by their neighbors. Which is why it shares so many similarities with Portuguese and Castellano, and is why it’s underlying grammatical roots are Castellano.” -
–This is mainly incorrect. Galician grammar has no “Castillian roots”, its roots, in common with those of Portuguese, are in medieval Galician-Portuguese. Galician evolved in parallel alongside Portuguese, Castillian, Catalan, and with similar status during the middle ages, NOT as an offshoot of any of these. However, unlike any of these other languages (the same can be said of the Basque language), Galician was unable to spread southwards into areas conquered from the Muslims as the southern part of the Kingdom of Galicia broke away to form the tiny domaine of Portugal and was later replaced as the language of officialdom, but only during the reign of the Reyes Catolicos.
“Since Latin (or later on, Leones and Castellano) was spoken by the ruling elite in Galicia, Gallego never had the chance to take off as a written language, since all official correspondence was in the language of the elite.”
– This is only true of the 15th century onwards. Please look up the 13th century Cantares de Martin Codax, and Xoan de Cangas. And Leones? That really has not been a factor. Alfonso the Wise, although King of Leon, used Castilian and Galician (he wrote lyric in both).
–This is furthermore demonstrated by the fact that: a)there are so many forms of Gallego, despite attempts throughout the last century to unify them; — not so many, but those that exist are generally mutually intelligible.
–”As an example, I have only this week ever read anything in Gallego. But that link you sent me, as a Castellano speaker, I could read with almost no problems. Send the same link in Catalan and I’m stuffed.” — I’m not sure what you are trying to tell me with this. Although most of that text probably consisted of short comments, the same would go for a text in Portuguese. A Dutch speaker can easily read German, but so what? They are both still separate languages. As an adopted Andaluz, I would recommend you read some of Garcia Lorca’s work in Galician given that you have no problem understanding it.
“Now, the distinction as to whether or not it’s a “language” is on one level an academic one, which is strongly influenced by ones personal attitude and mentality; on another a bitter issue which concentrates not on the language but on ones own sense of identity and wellbeing. For example, I spoke last night to my Catalan brother in law (a psychiatrist and strong Catalan nationalist) and he doesn’t think it’s a language either, but agrees it has strong and elderly roots. (Most of the Andalucians I’ve spoken to just shrug, it’s irrelevant to them.) You do think it’s a language, and that’s fine, and I don’t give the proverbial caber toss, as neither of us are deciding on whether or not to fund this.”
–I’m really lost here. Why isn’t Catalan a language either? I think you’re flogging a dead horse by saying any of the four official languages of Spain is a dialect. It’s weakening the rest of your argument.
“Now, as for the nationalist part, I’m worried about the whole European economy going down the pan, but the Gallician nationalists are complaining about having to put Castellano on a street sign warning you of road works. Which is not how I want a government to work. It’s similar to Chicken Little crying about how the sky is falling. They, and it’s a common tactic from many smaller nationalist parties from across the world (not just Galicia!) are trying to divert the real issue, which is working together in a multicultural environment for the common good, to “vote for me otherwise those bastards from the capital city will steamroll over you and leave you for dead”. It’s a rallying call that anybody who speaks the language can understand.”
– The problem with this is that you’re just willing to focus on a certain part of the nationalists policy. Having looked at the BNG’s programme a couple of years ago, I can tell you that it was as extensive (and boring) as that of the PSOE or PP. And didn’t focus solely on language or other traditionally nationalist policy. I could just as easily say that the PP were only concerned with putting words to Spain’s national anthem, or wasting money on military processions to show how “grande y libre” Spain is, a somewhat more ugly form of nationalism me thinks. However, why is this a question of nationalism? Isn’t Spain’s diversity and different languages, regardless of whether they live in Girona or Cadiz, something everyone should be proud of? I know that I’m pretty proud of the fact that even though we’ve given the world the most useful language in the world, I’m just a 3 hour drive from a corner of Britain where the Welsh has survived against all the possible forces. Why can’t the Spanish think like that? Too nationalist? Too Francoist?
“To return to my original post, the politician who ordered the design of the Galicia Tourism webpage must have taken a decision to make it appear first in Gallego, not Spanish or English. If they had wanted to, they could have automatically changed the language depending on where you are connecting from, or the language your browser is in. But no, they said “Gallego!”. Unlike the more enlightened brethren along the coast. Methinks they do protest too much!”
– Maybe, but you have already wasted far more time arguing about it than you will clicking on another link — the best option would certainly have been to have it set according to your browser’s language, but I don’t really care.
August 15th, 2008 at 4:26 pm
I didn’t say Catalan wasn’t a language, I said that the Catalan I asked thought Gallego wasn’t a language. Apologies if I mistyped there.
By the way, my little goddaughter is Welsh and is bi lingual in Welsh and English, so I can appreciate the problems the Welsh have had over the years. However, to compare Welsh to Gallego is like comparing Gallego to Euskera - they simply aren’t the same. One’s a 100% unique language overridden by a dominant culture (Castellano or English), the other coexists and depends upon the main culture.
The issue that concerns me is nationalism. For example, despite the fact that Gallego is, quite properly, protected by the Spanish constitution, nationalist parties in the Xunta have tried to pass a law saying that all conversations in places of businesses with clients have to start off in Gallego. That is, quite simply, undemocratic, unconstitutional and amazingly short sighted. Surely you agree?
In another example, I came across an press report recently that said a school in Pontevedra was refusing to allow children to use Castellano textbooks, insisting that they had to be in Gallego. It was only when the parents banded together and threatened legal action that the Xunta (who had ruled against the parents in the first instance) backed down and permitted the use of Castellano books.
We’re going headlong into a recession here and all the prats can do is argue about nonsense like this. It’s mind boggling, and if you truly love Gallego as a language then you must agree this is the surest way of pissing off the rest of the Spainards and indeed, even the local Gallego speakers.
In any case, I’m off up that corner of the world tomorrow so I shall form my own opinions while I’m there. Been nice talking to you.
August 17th, 2008 at 10:39 am
The fact that you have to click the “translate to Spanish” button or similar is done on purpose. It helps to eliminate all the stupid, lazy or drunk potential tourists. If they are stupid enough not to find the button or lazy enough not to click it, they will not understand the web and they will fuck off to Marbella or Mallorca, leaving Galicia for tourists of “more quality”, that are the ones that bring money without chaos.
Nevertheless, given your total lack of culture and neurons I am surprised you finally decided to come to Galicia. What a pity!!
If you are not drunk when you come, I would like to discuss with you your theory of Galician being a dialect, based on a text you read last week and the opinions of your Catalan psychiatrist brother-in-law. We could offer you a seat in the Galician Royal Academy.
August 17th, 2008 at 11:13 pm
I love Galician retranca . . .
August 18th, 2008 at 3:23 am
Eh? Galician? That’s not a language!…
_Thinking about escaping the rat race for a few days, I was idily visiting a few Spanish Tourism websites about the northwest coast. Now here’s a funny thing - all the “official” tourism websites for Galicia come up in that strange dialect of Castellan…
August 18th, 2008 at 4:12 am
I wonder if the author is aware that it is down to our vote. Not a big deal, but feel the post and some of the opinions thrown here are just plain rude. Doesn’t surprise me since I am used to hear the same kind of stuff coming from deep inside some Spanish caves. Regards.
Galiza ceive
August 18th, 2008 at 7:12 am
Thank goodness for English, eh? or we wouldn’t have a language in common to toss points at each other about who’s the dumbest.
I know that David is in Galicia this week, and am sure that he is being well received and treated by the Galicians and is certain to return home with stories about his trip, the excellence of the food, the beauty of the views… and the fact that everybody received him there en castellano. Or should he have taken a phrase-book?
August 18th, 2008 at 8:15 am
Althought galician nationalist party BNG are also part of the galician government you should also know that linguistics are not their competence. PSdG (Galician PSOE) is the only responsible of linguistics right now. Im pretty sure you’re much influenced by spanish reactionary press such as El Mundo. You’re invited to come and visit us, this way you can get rid of your prejudices.
August 18th, 2008 at 1:10 pm
If you want to speak about something, first learn about it. Galician it’s not a dialect of Spanish, Galician is a language with origins in latin (like spanish).
August 18th, 2008 at 2:00 pm
What a ridiculous lesson you’re trying to run! Nobody outside the limits of “the stink hole of Spain” -as you(vosotros) politely said above- gives a shit about if Galician it’s a dialect of Spanish or a language on its own! Please stop embarrassing ourselves at foreign people eyes!
August 18th, 2008 at 2:00 pm
Galician IS a language, is my language!
O galego é unha lingua, a miña lingua!
August 18th, 2008 at 2:17 pm
O galego non é un dialecto, é un idioma. Eres un puto subnormal.
August 18th, 2008 at 3:01 pm
Dave, why is it a dialect? Reading out the thread, I still do not know why do you consider Galician a dialect - and by the way, a dialect of…?
It is also quite strange -at least to me- that you choose your holiday destination according to the default language of an official website. The official tongue of Galicia is Galician… that is a good reason to have it as default language, isn’t it?
Besides, where is the adventurous spirit of yours? Just go to Galicia and then speak about it. Otherwise, why does internet exist then? To get fully biassed?
August 18th, 2008 at 6:05 pm
Eh? Galician? That’s not a language! [ENG]…
Pensando en escapar por unos días, estaba visitando varias webs de turismo español en la costa noroeste. Aquí viene lo divertido: todos los sitios oficiales para galicia viene en ese extraño dialecto del castellano que ellos llaman "Galego". …
August 18th, 2008 at 6:13 pm
I saw some great graffitti in A Coruna along the beachfront. It said:
My father is Gallego (in Galician)
My Mother is Castellano (in Spanish)
Me? I just want to be rich!
August 18th, 2008 at 6:13 pm
From my point of view, you have to get information about the history of languages in Europe, specially about Galego-Portugués and, in general, about dialects of Latin. If you already have that information, the problem is bigger: or you don’t know how to read or you have to review the distinction between ‘dialect’ and ‘official language’, because your words are similar to saying something as follows: ‘English is a strange dialect of German’ -for example-.
August 18th, 2008 at 6:27 pm
Ti és parvo neno…
August 18th, 2008 at 6:43 pm
@Erin
That is a very good point! I am so amazed with your intelect i cannot close my mouth. Lets review it.
The official tongue of Galicia is Galician… that is a good reason to have it as default language, isn’t it?
Oh my, such a bright intervention. Let me try the stuff so i can be right and cocky.
Galicia is in Spain. The official tongue of Spain is spanish.. that is a good reason to have it as a default language, ISN’T IT?!
So you drop the ‘isn’t it’ like you just made the speech of the century, revealing the hole of the doughnut, discovering the gunpowder. That is really nice.
Almost counts as an argument, my good nationalist. Try again, you will eventually find a prize in a bubblegum wrapper.
August 18th, 2008 at 6:51 pm
The englsh is a dialect of the german.
El inglés és un dialecto del alemán.
L’anglès és un dialecte de l’alemà.
La angla estas dialekto de la germana.
Le anglaise c’est un dialect de l’alemand.
August 18th, 2008 at 7:09 pm
Y del administrador es un hijo de la gran puta britanica ignorante y come salchichas.
Maricón cervecero y cabeza de mierda.
Un puto supporter descerebrado, analfabeto y muerdealmohadas.
En la actualidad, debido a a la supremacía económica y militar de los Estados Unidos, el inglés es un dialecto del norteamericano.
Y los britanicos no son más que las putas al servicio de los intereses norteamericanos en Europa.
August 18th, 2008 at 7:32 pm
Que borde. Creo que has demostrado los limites de tus poderes debativos, “La Puta Albion”.
August 18th, 2008 at 7:33 pm
Y tú, tu subnormalidad sin límites.
August 18th, 2008 at 7:36 pm
Axe Grinder congrats for your good knowledge about galician.
I’m a galician and i find very accurate ansers.
Galego miña lingua!!
August 18th, 2008 at 7:36 pm
Hi again, note since this post was referred to on the Spanish digg, Menéame, it is raining Spanish trolls (eg. above), and the militant ones pretending to be Galicians. Meet the Spanish Extreme Nationalism before you move onto the Catalan, Basque or the Galician ones.
August 18th, 2008 at 7:47 pm
A ignorancia moi atrevidiña é.
August 18th, 2008 at 7:58 pm
Yo soy borde, pero vosotros demostrais una absoluta falta de respeto hacia la cultura Gallega, además de una absoluta ignorancia acerca de la historia y la lingüística de España.
El Castellano, el Catalán, el Esukera y el Gallego son las lenguas oficiales del estado español.
Pero que se puede esperar de estos que tienen un kidney pie en lugar de cerebro.
All Britshit.
August 18th, 2008 at 8:00 pm
Euskera*
August 18th, 2008 at 8:02 pm
O sea, en vez de intentar educarme, solo puedes insultar y gritar?
August 18th, 2008 at 8:06 pm
No. No puedo.
Estoy harto de intentar educar a barbaros sin educación ni cultura, más allá del futbol y alcoholizados las veinticuatro horas del día en todas las costas de España.
Gentuza. Bárbaros sin ningún interés por nada que no sea beber hasta perder el sentido y, a ser posible, por el camino pelearse y destrozar todo lo que puedan.
Esa es la imagen que dais los británicos cuando os sacan como ganado de vuestro país.
Y no es ninguna excepción. Es la regla general.
No merecéis la pena.
August 18th, 2008 at 8:19 pm
Hey, Dave, why don’t you take a look at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galician_language
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galiza
?
There you can learn things and facts about our language, so the next time you talk about it you won’t make mistakes.
I hope you visit our wonderful country and you come into contact with galician culture.
August 18th, 2008 at 9:09 pm
So… Galician isn’t a language… what is it then, more like a understandable human noise?
After reading you’re post, I can’t even believe you did visit a single site neither had read a basic book about Galiza, because if you did you should know about 100% of galicians understand it, and most of them speak it all the time.
So maybe Galiza it’s not the best choice for your perfect spanglishspeaking vacations, for “oleole’s” and all that stuff you should better go to Andalucia.
By the way, are you american? (I ask it after your ridiculous historic and geographic knowledge).
August 18th, 2008 at 10:13 pm
Er…actually you could just have chosen one of the 8 languages available in the Galician Tourism Board site:
galego (sorry!) , español ,português, english, français , deutsch , italiano ,català , euskera
http://www.turgalicia.es/default.asp?cidi=I
If you were trying to do was to insult our language ,I’m really sorry you are wasting your precious time because:
a) I don´t think you aren’t intelligent enough to do so .You know, if you try to talk about some subject and you haven’t got a clue , you just end up coming out as a illiterate geezer .( The Sun reader-type maybe?)
b) I’m afraid we will continue to speak/write our humble latin language ,yep,the Galego a.k.a. Galician or Portuguese ,indeed!
Anyway ,don’t give up ,mate, because even if you can’t handle the fact we speak galego, you are welcome to come to Galicia ,it won’t be hard to arrange some english speakers for you .
Watch & Learn:
[admin: removed link to some brazilian video nonsense]
August 18th, 2008 at 10:15 pm
@pakote
I did not made the speech of the century as you say. According to the Estatuto de Atunomia de Galicia, the official language is Galician, i.e. the language official at the Galician administration. Spanish (Castillian) is a co-official language within the administration. As you can see, it is not a bright invention, but a fact.
Besides, I do not vote nor I consider myself a nationalist. I guess neither you do.
August 18th, 2008 at 10:32 pm
The best thing about being a nationalist is it makes you feel superior to the neighbours. It’s a bit like being a football club supporter.
Go Alhama!
August 18th, 2008 at 11:29 pm
Gibraltar español, ingleses, a buscar el sol a vuestro puto pais de mierda, putos colonos. Largo de aqui, sois lo peor de vuestra cultura de mierda.
Venis aqui a comer bien y vivir mejor ,hijos de la mierda real.
August 19th, 2008 at 12:33 am
Por ultima vez - puedes decir que el Galego es una lengua. No me importa para nada. Si no hablo de eso.
Si estoy quejando de los politicos nacionalistas, hijos de putas, quienes enganen a ninos como vosotros para mantenerse en el poder sin tener en cuenta los danos a largo tiempo que estan haciendo tanto a nivel regional como a nivel nacional.
Y si no sabeis comportaros como adultos desconectate de internet y vete a leer Mortadelo y Filemon chupando una chupa chup.
For the last time: Call Gallego a language. I couldn’t care less. I’m not talking about that.
I’m complaining about the bastard nationalist politicians who are pulling the wool over the eyes of children like you, who are so desperate to maintain power that the refuse to see the short and long term damage they are doing, both at the regional and national level.
And if you can’t act in a grown up fashion then disconnect from the internet, go read your Mortadelo y Filemon comics and have a Chupa Chup.
August 19th, 2008 at 1:06 am
Sinn Féin amham!
Oglaigh na´h´Éiréann!
Freedom for Alba & Cymru!!
August 19th, 2008 at 1:52 am
Mr Jackson, just a retorical question:
This big number of comments about the issue, are all of them because of not to click a flag in a corner of a website? Excuse me, but sincerely I think you are a bit lazy…
This year I’ll study in an international (yes, international) Danish school of business, the default page is in Danish and I don’t see any problem, I just click the brittish flag and I continue with my work… I don’t understand why you don’t agree with using the native language of each area.
Thank you
August 19th, 2008 at 2:09 am
I can’t believe what I’m reading… somebody that accuses some nationalist from whom he even don’t know anything about of being something close to children eaters uses a 3 million people’s language as a weapon for your hate speech.
Who are you calling bastard? The only bastard I see around here is the one that discriminates against 3 million people just because he is to lazy to click on a stupid tab in some website.
Come on David, just apologize, read some books and then please consider asking for professional help, I’m serious.
August 19th, 2008 at 9:55 am
Hehehe… tell you what… they speak French in Quebeq! Eh? French? That’s not a language! LOL! You’re funneh
August 19th, 2008 at 9:58 am
Well, have a nice time in the Baske country, we don’t want people like you in Galicia. Bye
August 19th, 2008 at 9:59 am
David, you’re a completely ignorant.
August 19th, 2008 at 10:02 am
Come to Andalucia!!! Here aren’t problems with nationalism! óle!
Sun, beach and a lot of beauty girls!!
August 19th, 2008 at 10:04 am
you are a fuckin almerian guy an you want to be the turist clown, believing that the rest of the people in the world is stupid as you are
August 19th, 2008 at 10:07 am
Please, be my guest and go to the vasque region instead of going to Galicia, certainly you are not the visitor Galicia needs. It is a fact that not any region of Spain needs more irrelevant tourist. People that don´t even bother to look at the REAL origin of a language, considering this as a basic part of being a tourist.
Don´t worry that´s exactly what makes Galicia different from mediterranean coast, which is the non-massive tourism, maybe because of the climate or maybe because the lack of chiringuitos on its beaches. THANKS GOD!!! when I visit beautiful Galicia I do not see drunk people every where, so I can have the real pleasure of the Atlantic breeze in a real natural sorrounding.
August 19th, 2008 at 10:29 am
It’s a shame to see pretended galicians as “puta albion” acting as little children…
David is right and the problem are the politicians, they are cheating you hard!
He is giving arguments and you are barking…
It’s like the basque problem: Una pandilla de descerebrados comandados por una pandilla de hijos de puta.
I’m castilian and I love galicia, almost every summer I go there on vacation, and people is lovable and realy polite, galego speakers allways ask me if I can understand them…
But reading what I’m reading makes me think I’ve been very lucky when I was there….
Gora Galiza lliure copón!
August 19th, 2008 at 10:29 am
Si todos hablais castellano -viendo las expresiones que meteis ‘inglesizadas’ (en euskera tenemos una palabra para eso ‘erderakada’) es obvio-, ese idioma tan internacional que puede sustituir a vascuence, catalan y gallego… Pq hablais en ingles?
August 19th, 2008 at 10:29 am
El unico ignorante eres tu que titulas el escrito Eh? Galician? That’s not a language!. Luego intentas dar clases de que es el idioma gallego cuando reconoces que no has vivido allí y mezclas el nacionalismos con la cultura.
Y terminas un post con una frase tan bonita como
·Gentuza, ignorantes de la vida, fracasados”
Un ejemplo de persona intransigente, que trata de hablar de algo que no conoce
August 19th, 2008 at 10:30 am
How depressing that the common denominator - very common - quickly becomes personal abuse. With one or two honourable exceptions like Erin. I would guess she is female and above the juvenile bile.
August 19th, 2008 at 10:32 am
By the way, English is a dialect of German, via Dutch.
Whether it is ’strange’ is probably a question for the Germans, not for English or Spanish speakers. Since they can;t understand it unless they are taught it, I guess it must be strange to them.
August 19th, 2008 at 10:39 am
If you like beach and beach and beach… for you the CULTURE can dead.
If you like enjoy the CULTURE of a site, you like others languages, mountains, traditional dances…
Spanish has more languages (not dialects) from Latin.
August 19th, 2008 at 10:40 am
Mr. Jackson,
Reading through the comments I reckon you are not the average illiterate brit visiting the Mediterranean coast. Good starting point. I won’t argue on whether Galician is a language or a dialect. That’s not for us to decide since that classification has already been made by the people who actually have to do it: linguists.
From later comments on the post I see that the underlying reasoning behind your post is bashing the (Galician) nationalism and the linguistic policies. First, I would like to say that everyone, yes, everyone is nationalist. Maybe in a banal manner but nationalist nonetheless. The only difference is usually on whether the nation you identify yourself with is an officially established one or not.
Spanish is my mother tongue and I think I have a good command of English. As a Basque country born person I also studied Basque and along the way I have also learned two other languages to a pretty good level. Today I still regret not having been able to completely master the Basque language. Spanish is a major, and very useful, language. If you live in Spain you will learn Spanish, no matter in which area you live since you are immersed in it. Of course you need to study its grammar in a structured way but having a local language as a the vehicular language on your studies won’t hinder your ability to speak Spanish. And I have seen this first hand in the Basque Country.
Moreover, the ability to speak two languages as mother tongues helps a lot in being able to learn other languages in the future and there are quite a few studies about that.
For me is particularly sad that those who campaign the hardest against using local, albeit official, languages as vehicular ones in the school are, in general, only capable of speaking Spanish properly. They claim that English is more useful than the local languages but then their command of English is no better than the one that inhabitants of the areas with two official languages have.
In the Basque Country, what I expect from the government is establishing the proper linguistic policies that allow my children to be trilingual: Basque, Spanish and English. How they manage to achieve that: I don’t care.
August 19th, 2008 at 10:41 am
This guy gives a shit about culture or languages, he’s just a troll living in a blog, can’t you see it? Just leave him alone, this scum only calms down this way.
August 19th, 2008 at 10:46 am
Vivir na coruña que bonito eh! andar de parranda e durmir de pe!!! e durmir de pe!!!! e durmir de pe!!! vivir na coruña que bonito e!!!!
August 19th, 2008 at 10:49 am
David Jackson, has acabado poniéndote a la altura de los trolls que han venido a calentarte. Y eso, en tu propio weblog, no debería pasar nunca.
August 19th, 2008 at 10:50 am
/\
|
August 19th, 2008 at 10:57 am
Inepto, cretino, analfabeto, cabeza cuadrada, inútil, necio, bobo, estúpido, zoquete, … TE LO PONGO EN CASTELLANO PA QUE LO ENTIENDAS!!!
Ni el galego, ni el euskera ni el catalán son dialectos, SON LENGUAS VIVAS CO-OFICIALES con el castellano en las regiones correspondientes…
GALIZA, EUSKAL HERRIA i CATALUNYA LIBRES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
August 19th, 2008 at 11:02 am
X-DDDDDDDDD Welcome to spanish circus.
Greetings from the The Country Formerly Known as Spain.
August 19th, 2008 at 11:08 am
In fact, you’re totally right…
August 19th, 2008 at 11:09 am
Come to Basque country!!! But, you should go to Galicia…I can´t understand why they put it in Galego…you should write them a letter telling that you are going to Basque Country instead, and the reasons…
anyway….have fun!!
August 19th, 2008 at 11:14 am
This post/blog is a big intelligence offense.
August 19th, 2008 at 11:14 am
Some regions in Spain have started a fascist movement to drop the widely spoken spanish language and impose a local (some times invented) language.
August 19th, 2008 at 11:20 am
Nacionalist = nerd
You’re totally right
August 19th, 2008 at 11:27 am
Esto no tiene nada que ver con nacionalismos, mi abuela solo sabe hablar en galego y no es nacionalista, pero habla el idioma que siempre se ha hablado aqui desde hace muchos siglos.
Si la pagina está traducida a otros idiomas, ¿que problema hay? ¿Te decimos los demas en que idioma tienes que escribir tu blog?
Ademas, prefiero que no vengais muchos turistas , que nos jodeis nuestras playas y nuestras fragas. Tal y como esta creciendo el turismo en galicia, me veo viviendo en otro benidorm.
August 19th, 2008 at 11:28 am
Dado o teu perfil cultural aconsélloche que viaxes a Benidorm, Tenerife ou incluso que quedes na casa. Nós podemos entender que falar só inglés che supoña un trauma, pero ese é un problema teu que terás que superar na medida que vaias medrando. Para que poidas entendelo mellor, direiche que é parecido ó acné, na medida en que medres quitaránseche os complexos e aceptaraste tal e como eres, no teu caso inglés e non podes remedialo. En canto ó Galego e o Castelán dígoche o mesmo é cuestión de que leas un pouco antes de te expresar en público.
Bo día.
August 19th, 2008 at 11:31 am
Hey dude. Translate this phrase into Spanish if you think that Galician is a dialect. Aghinas que non balduas, esquirre macaifons tons, llaste trefe aghina o verbo saraboto. Poor boy..what a igorant!!!! The Castilian language, like the Portuguese are a descent to the Ancient Galician. Honkey!!!
August 19th, 2008 at 11:32 am
From David Jackson website:
“Books I like: Franco: A biography”
Enought said… a franco fanb0y…
August 19th, 2008 at 11:33 am
Y acaban con nuestra cerveza…..
August 19th, 2008 at 11:38 am
@Galego: ¿Estrella de Galicia? No gracias, toda para vosotros…
Ps: El Terras Gaudas os sale mejor…
August 19th, 2008 at 11:39 am
Amazingly thin skinned you nationalists, eh?
By the way, is any other Castellano speaker having problems understanding the posts in Gallego? After only two days here in Galicia I’m already speaking it like a native!
Still, you’re clicking on my ads so I’m not complaining.
As an aside, what do you people think about the Xunta of Galicia voting for the new estatut, which gives additional rights to the Catalans but takes 3,000, 000,000 euros a year away from central funding?
August 19th, 2008 at 11:42 am
Nos quejamos de que no has dicho la verdad, porque no la conoces.
Porque con tus palabras, (y con esos datos disparatados, que teniendo internet no se de donde los has sacado) has demostrado no conocerla.
Y solo recibes insultos, porque nos has insultado. Y ojalá conocieses la verdad, la autentica realidad española, porque sólo así comprenderías hasta que punto nos has ofendido. Y eso que yo no soy Gallega, soy Asturiana, (y por tanto no hablo Gallego, sino Bable y Español).
Entraste en una pagina que estaba en Gallego, y si estaba en Gallego es porque indudablemente alguna razón habría para ello. No conoces esas razones, ni conoces la realidad gallega, asi que no te lances de buenas a primeras a criticar lo que no conoces.
¿Y quejarte de Nacionalismos?, ¿En Galicia? ¿sólo porque la página aparece en Gallego?… Me parece que estas un poco perdido.
Aunque lo que mas gracia me hace es leer que te quejas de nacionalismos, pero luego piensas en visitar Euskadi (Basque region) porque la página esta en español… En fin… suerte.
Y por cierto; Yo si recuerdo cuando Galicia fue un reino independiente.
Fue el reino suevo desde la liberacion romana hasta aproximadamente el siglo VI, entonces fue conformado Reino de Galicia, que comprendía toda Galicia y el norte de Portugal, mucho antes de que Portugal existiera como reino. Hacia el siglo X el reino de Galicia paso a formar parte de la corona de León y poco después pasó a formar parte del reino de Castilla, hacia el 1230. Sólo entonces podémos empezar a hablar de España.
Por supuesto, durante todo ese tiempo en Galicia se hablaba Gallego; lengua hablada y escrita que comenzó su decadencia hacia el 1460, cuando se imprime uno de los últimos textos en Gallego original, “La crónica de Iria”. A partir de entonces la lengua Gallega coexistió con el castellano.
No te pido que sepas todo esto, me basta con saberlo yo. Pero por favor, si no sabes algo o no lo conoces, no te lances a afirmar tus supociones o “lo que te han dicho”, como si fueran verdades irrefutables del universo, porque lo unico que consigues es un montón de disparates sin sentido.
Ojalá… ojalá te dieras cuenta de la imagen que nos has dado. Pero bueno, conocer realmente otra cultura no creo que cambiara tu vida, ni tampoco la mia. Así que da igual.
Queda dicho.
August 19th, 2008 at 11:43 am
Pido disculpas a las personas que se hayan sentido ofendidas por mi post anterior, ya que entiendo que el personaje de éste blog no les representa y dudo mucho de que sea anglosajón como quiere hacerse ver y si es así…, chaval corre a cambiarte el nombre porque hay un cachondeo que no veas.
August 19th, 2008 at 11:52 am
El gallego es una lengua, MI LENGUA, de un pais, Galiza, MI PAIS. Para nuestra desgracia nuestro pais esta integrada dentro de un estado imperialista que ha estado imponiendo su lengua y cultura durante siglos.
Esos politicos hijos de puta como tu los llamas estan intentando defender nuestra cultura para que no desaparezca, porque más hijos de puta son todos los españolistas que no son capaces de entender que somos distintos y que tenemos cultura propia
Y hay un dicho por aqui respecto a gente como tu:
los de fuera: mirar y dar tabaco
August 19th, 2008 at 11:53 am
Gracias Asturiana por tomar el tiempo y responder de forma adulta. No vuelvo a explicar mi posicion que se ha quedado todo muy claro ahi arriba.
Si yo no niego que Galicia era un reino independiente, pero creo que lo sabemos todos que la union con Leon y luego Castilla era un proceso natural. Pero eso es el pasado, y yo me preocupo del futuro - un futuro que creo que esta perjudicado por los intereses politicos a corto plazo. Como puede ser, en el ejemplo de Galicia, las negociaciones del estatut. Segun el “Diario de Galicia” se ve que la Xunta va con los Catalanes, a pesar del perjuicio a la economia Gallega.
De verdad querremos eso?
Pero en fin, en 100 anos seremos todos europeos reinados desde Bruselas, que mas da?
August 19th, 2008 at 11:59 am
So many words just to prove your point, and to show your ignorance.
Galician language has existed for long, as you’ve admitted, and then you say just because the “Real Academia” was created in 20th century it is therefore officially a language only since then? WTF?
I guess I’d rather quote the Wikipedia since you won’t listen to anyone in your blog:
From the 8th century, Galicia was a political unit within the kingdoms of Asturias and Leon, but was able to reach a degree of autonomy, becoming an independent kingdom at certain times in the tenth, eleventh and twelfth centuries. Galician was the only language in spoken use, and Latin was used, to a decreasing extent, as a written language.
By the way, you’re so against Galician language, yet you still spell A Coruña instead of using La Coruña, which in your opinion might be more correct? Or even Corunna in english… who cares.
Please, if it’s too much trouble for you to read Galego, just click on the fucking english link and read the site in English. People like you have no interest in culture and protecting languages, so we could care less about you, but to Galegos, it’s a way of showing the world that we exist, our culture exists, and that we have our own language. The concepts of culture and language are so closely related that protecting our languages is as important as preserving our cultures. If you don’t give a shit about that, thank you, move along. If you do, you’re welcome to learn about the galician culture.
IT’S IRONIC that a tourist going to Galicia has no interest in the Galician culture and language, so much that you start such an angry rant. I mean, what the fuck?
August 19th, 2008 at 12:09 pm
Lamentable artículo el tuyo, demuestras una total y absoluto desconocimiento de nuestra realidad lingüistica, el gallego es el idioma hablado y entendido por la mayoria de la población gallega, que las páginas de nuestro gobierno autonómico (XUNTA DE GALIZA) estén en gallego es algo normal y totalmente entendible, no se si para gente como tu, pero para la gran mayoria si. No intento con esto darte clases de educación ni de historia, para eso ya tienes los libros, a los cuales deberian acudir antes de desprestigiar a un idioma y a un pueblo como el nuestro de una forma tan gratuita. En que te basas para decir que la Xunta va con los catalanes y que eso perjudica en algo a nuestra economia? mucho más nos perjudica un turismo salvaje y sin control, un urbanismo que hace no mucho estaba totalmente fuera de control alguno por parte de nuestro gobierno, más daño nos hacen comportamientos como el tuyo, también tiene narices que digas que el nacionalismo nos está sorbiendo el seso a los jóvenes, ¿acaso piensas que los que entramos aqui tenemos todos 15 años? respeta un poco a los demás para que hagan contigo lo mismo, asi los gallegos respetamos más a irlandeses y escoceses, sabiendo como sois los ingleses de soberbios no me estraña.
Un saúdo e máis humildade e menos prepotencia pola túa parte.
Saúde e terra !!
August 19th, 2008 at 12:17 pm
Ante todo dejar clara mi postura; soy Asturiana.
Me considero nacionalista Asturiana; en el sentido de que estoy orgullosa de ser Asturiana y quiero lo mejor para mi tierra. Pero también soy española, nací con esa nacionalidad y nadie tiene derecho a quitármela. Pero no me quedo ahi, ¡resulta que también soy Europea!. ¡A falta de una, tengo tres nacionalidades!. Y Ojalá llegue un día que no existan las fronteras y los humanos podamos considerados nacidos en todas partes.
Pero el mundo no es tan maravilloso.
Lo maravilloso sería, que los politicos pudiesen sentarse tranquilamente a analizar el pasado junto con el presente en busca de un futuro mejor.
Pero resulta que en Galicia hay jubilados que el mes que viene no podrán pagar la luz, resulta que hay jóvenes que el més que viene no podrán pagar su hipoteca. Hay jóvenes en Galicia que su única salida es irse a Madrid para ganarse la vida, y dedicarse a añorar su tierra en la distancia.
La politica, las regiones y la economia son importantes; pero los examinas a fondo, descubres que estan echos de gente, y para la gente.
La politica tiene que proteger y representar a la gente, y los intereses politicos a corto plazo son importantes.
¡Porque hay gente que sólo tiene ese corto plazo! Cuando la gente pide algo, es porque lo necesita.
¿Quien dice que si la union del reino de Galicia con Leon y Castilla, fue un proceso natural, no puede ser también la creación del estatut un proceso natural?
¿Cuándo, en toda la historia humana, se han echo unas negociaciones que no hayan sido valoradas por intereses a corto plazo? Los seres humanos no vivimos tanto. Pero necesitamos comer cada día.
August 19th, 2008 at 12:21 pm
Asturiana - si tienes todo el razon del mundo.
August 19th, 2008 at 12:22 pm
El gallego es un idioma derivado directamente del latín; tiene una tradición oral y escrita de muchos siglos; no es un dialecto del castellano. Ni gallego, ni castellano, ni catalán, ni vasco, ni ninguna otra lengua, deberían de verse nunca afectadas por prohibiciones derivadas de la política. Cualquier persona que sea persona debería de intentar comunicarse con quien se dirija a él, en el idioma que sea; y en Galicia sucede eso (y por las veces que he estado en Cataluña y el País Vasco, también); ve a cualquier pueblo recóndito de las provincias de Ourense o Lugo, donde más se habla gallego, y verás como la gente se esfuerza en que les entiendas;si te encuentras excepciones en algún sitio, pues pregunta a otra persona, y no generalices en tus conclusiones sobre todo un pueblo.Si la dichosa página web estaba en una de las lenguas oficiales de Galicia, y existe la posibilidad de traducirla para que se entienda en distintos idiomas,no nos trates a los gallegos de intransigentes y nacionalistas;acepta y respeta la variedad cultural que, afortunadamente, tenemos en nuestra tierra.