DavidJackson.info

Shame. Most people here are completely bilingual but prefer to speak in Castellano. You would have zilch problems, despite the impression given by the web pages.

Having just looked at this site I see that it’s available in 9 different languages, including English and Spanish which demonstrates considerable effort to make the site accessible to as many people as possible. A very large proportion (if not the majority) of visitors to Galicia are people of Galician descent — it is therefore logical that the default page on this site would be in the language of Galicia, rather than in Spanish.

Maybe it is poor marketing, in which case it would make more sense if it were in English as the default, either way, that does not give you licence to dismiss the Galician language as “not being a proper language”. Take a look at Visitwales.org and it’s much the same thing — you have to select your langauge before you go any further and both Welsh and Catalan are options (neither of which are perhaps proper languages in your eyes).

You clearly do not have any understanding of the history of Galician language (in speech, print, song etc), which predates the Portuguese language and has existed alongside Portuguese for 700 years, (since Portuguese independence) and Spanish for over 1500 years.

Galician is no more a dialect of Latin than Portuguese, Spanish or Romanian are, and to suggest that it is a dialect of Spanish is as ridiculous as saying that Dutch is a dialect of English.

You clearly don’t appreciate any culture that doesn’t pertain to a major world language or colonial power, English and maybe Spanish. Or maybe you simply don’t appreciate any culture at all, which would explain why you live in the stink hole of Spain.

You clearly don’t know the difference between a language and a dialect, and I not prepared to waste my time explaining the differences to you or justifying the already founded, officially recognised (by millions of people and institutions) and historically documented existence of Galician as a bona fide language. Maybe you should read up some basic text books on linguistics before offending masses of people just because they prefer not to speak Spanish or English as their main language.

As for “living in the past”, I think your attitude is more antiquated, given it’s more in line with that of the Victorians who wanted the whole world to speak English (to them Indians just barked rather than spoke a language) or the Nazis who would have had you speaking German instead of your English “dialect” had they have won the war. Lies? Deceit? Not sure what you’re talking about (maybe it’s the sunstroke), but you have already proved that you are a twat so I’ll put it down to that.

Hey, guys.

If you go to any one of various sites about the distinction between language and dialect, it will tell you it’s rather pointless/academic. Every language is a dialect of an earlier one. It’s all to do with politics. Armies and navies, as they say. Or where you are sitting. Or – as I said years ago on the issue of whether Gallego is a dialect of Portuguese or vice versa – on which side of the Miño/Minho you are standing.

I have a lot of views about Galician Nationalism and the politicisation of language here but I couldn’t care less whether you can label Gallego a real language or not. In practice, it doesn’t make a whit of difference to what is being done – rightly or wrongly – in real life. And it just clouds the issue to argue about a pointless distinction. Or distinctions, As far as I know – and have reported – there are several different Gallegos, the least spoken being the one theorised about by the Galician Royal Academy. And the next least spoken being that taught in schools as standard Gallego. for which we have to thank the transformation of ‘gracias’ into ‘grazas’, for example.
Pure politics.

But, as I say, there are more useful things to get in a lather about . . . .

First, what Collin says above is correct. All languages are dialects but NOT all dialects are languages. What you write suggests your understanding of a dialect to be “not a proper language” — Galician is as much a dialect as Spanish or English, but no more “not a proper language” than either. It is also arguably though also a dialect of Portuguese, but only in the same way that Swedish is could be said to be a dialect of Danish.

Of course, nationalism is an important factor, but it’s not just Galician nationalists that stick their feet in. If it wasn’t for Spanish nationalists, Galician would have a spelling system much more like that of Portuguese (e.g. nh and lh instead of ñ and ll) and would possibly even have been officially recognised as a form of the Portuguese language.

Colin–three forms of Galician? That’s far fewer than the number of variants of English, Spanish or most other languages I could name (and different English spelling systems for that matter). Although, the Galician academy does seem to be almost as out of touch as the French academy.

Second, David, I’m not sure how I’m trying to stir up nationalist sentiments, when you’re the one dismissing one of the main components of a common culture shared by about 3 million people. It’s attitudes like that; intolerance, a view that smaller cultures should be subservient to larger nation state cultures; or that someone is more backward or stupid simply based on what language they speak that are the true roots of extremist nationalism — I wonder if the hatred the murdering British soilders felt during the Crooke Park masacre was driven by the thought that Gaelic football “isn’t proper football”?

Your comment about the Galician is an incredible oversight for someone living in Spain (you’ll see what I mean if you look at the reaction to similar comments made by a Deportivo footballer about the Galician and Catalan languages: http://chuza.org/historia/sergio-xogador-do-deportivo-o-galego-e-un-dialecto-igual-ca-o-catalan-2/ ).

Third, no I am not a member of the Cornish nationalist front if there is one (this would be as excentric as being an Andalucian nationalist and wouldn’t make much sense as a Londoner); I have enough friends; like to get into a lather about more things; but don’t give a toss about the economy until I start getting poorer.

There you go: http://www.minutodigital.com/actualidad2/2008/07/02/el-pp-vasco-reacciona-contra-la-imposicion-linguistica/

Even the locals are starting to wake and smell the coffee.

My congratulations to everyone for not only calming down but providing fascinating data and views. More please.

I do, though, disagree that having 3 [actually at least 5] different forms of Gallego in little Galicia is equivalent to have different forms of English emerging on a multi-billion world stage.

I can 100% sympathise with Galleguistas and what I call [small n]nationalists who want to promote their language and culture. But I reject the right of the [large n]Nationalist who don’t have the courage to call for secession to take this to the point of forcing it on us and suppressing our use of Spanish simply because we live in that part of Spain called Galicia. I don’t think they have either the legal or moral right to do this. In this it is no different from what Franco did.

Now, if they demanded and got succession from Spain, things would be very different and they could do whatever the Galician population accepted. But they are not going to do this, are they, as it would cost them votes and they would lose what power they currently have. In other words, they sell their soul for a mess of pottage, knowing full well that most Gallegos are afraid of losing the ‘solidarity’ of the folk whose language the BNG is trying to suppress with its Orwellian Language Normalisation program. Which, of course, they dress up as something which it isn’t.

Lenox: That, in fact, is the aspiration of the true Nationalists – viz. that the kids are totally fluent in Gallego and English so that they can operate well both locally and internationally, though not necessarily in, say, Castile. They would know Spanish about as well as an average 16 year British kid knows a language studied for O level. They think this would be no bad thing as they operate from a basis of resentment that Spanish was ever allowed to gain the strength it did in ‘Galiza’. To them it counts for little that their employment prospects in the rest of Spain would be minimal. As one said ‘The language and culture are more important than economics’. Which is an easy view for, say, a young man/woman living at his/her parents’ expense. Not so easy when you need employment and your English has to compete with that of many, many others outside Spain.

Actually, I’m beginning to despise the BNG for the dishonesty of it all. Nice individuals as they are.

Sorry, I meant to say “Conversely, the Nationalists, who you are trying to taint as wanting to eradicate SPANISH”

David,

I forgot to answer your response — there are a few inaccuracies and facts that you have not fully researched:

“However, I still fell that you’re making a mistake comparing “three or more variants of Gallego” to the different spelling of English or Spanish (Castellano). English has many dialects because different English speakers from across the world have evolved their form of the language.”

– The distance from Liverpool to Manchester or Manchester to Leeds, is less than the distance from Vigo to Coruña, yet there is far greater variation in the English that is spoken in these places.

“While Gallego has been around for a long time, it was not properly “pinned down” in linguistic terms (spelling, grammar, vocabulary)”

– Except for grammar, this is largely true, although disagreement over spelling and vocabulary are due to 500 years of not having no official status in society, and in the case of vocabulary, regional variations that you’d find with any language.

“until 1906, with the formation of the “Real Academia Gallega” and the first dictionaries. This was due to the strong nationalist influence that raged across Spain after the final collapse of its empire and the war with the US, in which in an attempt to define themselves intellectuals and politicians looked inwards, back to their roots, rather then towards the failed (as it appeared at that moment) Spanish kingdom.”

–This is possibly a factor, but the Rexurdimento of the mid-1800s long predates the loss of the Spanish-American war in 1898 and follows similar movements in the British Isles and other parts of Europe.

“Until then, it was mainly an oral language (ignoring the 19th century poets, who used the language spoken by their relatives or friends, and earlier works of the 17th century, which were also poetical in nature, but which rarely manage to agree on spelling).”

–This ignores the whole of the period up until the early 15th century, during which Galician was effectively the sole language of Galicia, and enjoyed the same status as Spanish in the Christian ruled parts of Castille and Portuguese in Portugal.

“Gallego evolved because a small population was cut off in the mountains and spoke their own version of Latin, but heavily influenced by the more dominant languages (Castellano, Portuguese) spoken by their neighbors. Which is why it shares so many similarities with Portuguese and Castellano, and is why it’s underlying grammatical roots are Castellano.” -

–This is mainly incorrect. Galician grammar has no “Castillian roots”, its roots, in common with those of Portuguese, are in medieval Galician-Portuguese. Galician evolved in parallel alongside Portuguese, Castillian, Catalan, and with similar status during the middle ages, NOT as an offshoot of any of these. However, unlike any of these other languages (the same can be said of the Basque language), Galician was unable to spread southwards into areas conquered from the Muslims as the southern part of the Kingdom of Galicia broke away to form the tiny domaine of Portugal and was later replaced as the language of officialdom, but only during the reign of the Reyes Catolicos.

“Since Latin (or later on, Leones and Castellano) was spoken by the ruling elite in Galicia, Gallego never had the chance to take off as a written language, since all official correspondence was in the language of the elite.”

– This is only true of the 15th century onwards. Please look up the 13th century Cantares de Martin Codax, and Xoan de Cangas. And Leones? That really has not been a factor. Alfonso the Wise, although King of Leon, used Castilian and Galician (he wrote lyric in both).

–This is furthermore demonstrated by the fact that: a)there are so many forms of Gallego, despite attempts throughout the last century to unify them; — not so many, but those that exist are generally mutually intelligible.

–”As an example, I have only this week ever read anything in Gallego. But that link you sent me, as a Castellano speaker, I could read with almost no problems. Send the same link in Catalan and I’m stuffed.” — I’m not sure what you are trying to tell me with this. Although most of that text probably consisted of short comments, the same would go for a text in Portuguese. A Dutch speaker can easily read German, but so what? They are both still separate languages. As an adopted Andaluz, I would recommend you read some of Garcia Lorca’s work in Galician given that you have no problem understanding it.

“Now, the distinction as to whether or not it’s a “language” is on one level an academic one, which is strongly influenced by ones personal attitude and mentality; on another a bitter issue which concentrates not on the language but on ones own sense of identity and wellbeing. For example, I spoke last night to my Catalan brother in law (a psychiatrist and strong Catalan nationalist) and he doesn’t think it’s a language either, but agrees it has strong and elderly roots. (Most of the Andalucians I’ve spoken to just shrug, it’s irrelevant to them.) You do think it’s a language, and that’s fine, and I don’t give the proverbial caber toss, as neither of us are deciding on whether or not to fund this.”

–I’m really lost here. Why isn’t Catalan a language either? I think you’re flogging a dead horse by saying any of the four official languages of Spain is a dialect. It’s weakening the rest of your argument.

“Now, as for the nationalist part, I’m worried about the whole European economy going down the pan, but the Gallician nationalists are complaining about having to put Castellano on a street sign warning you of road works. Which is not how I want a government to work. It’s similar to Chicken Little crying about how the sky is falling. They, and it’s a common tactic from many smaller nationalist parties from across the world (not just Galicia!) are trying to divert the real issue, which is working together in a multicultural environment for the common good, to “vote for me otherwise those bastards from the capital city will steamroll over you and leave you for dead”. It’s a rallying call that anybody who speaks the language can understand.”

– The problem with this is that you’re just willing to focus on a certain part of the nationalists policy. Having looked at the BNG’s programme a couple of years ago, I can tell you that it was as extensive (and boring) as that of the PSOE or PP. And didn’t focus solely on language or other traditionally nationalist policy. I could just as easily say that the PP were only concerned with putting words to Spain’s national anthem, or wasting money on military processions to show how “grande y libre” Spain is, a somewhat more ugly form of nationalism me thinks. However, why is this a question of nationalism? Isn’t Spain’s diversity and different languages, regardless of whether they live in Girona or Cadiz, something everyone should be proud of? I know that I’m pretty proud of the fact that even though we’ve given the world the most useful language in the world, I’m just a 3 hour drive from a corner of Britain where the Welsh has survived against all the possible forces. Why can’t the Spanish think like that? Too nationalist? Too Francoist?

“To return to my original post, the politician who ordered the design of the Galicia Tourism webpage must have taken a decision to make it appear first in Gallego, not Spanish or English. If they had wanted to, they could have automatically changed the language depending on where you are connecting from, or the language your browser is in. But no, they said “Gallego!”. Unlike the more enlightened brethren along the coast. Methinks they do protest too much!”

– Maybe, but you have already wasted far more time arguing about it than you will clicking on another link — the best option would certainly have been to have it set according to your browser’s language, but I don’t really care.

The fact that you have to click the “translate to Spanish” button or similar is done on purpose. It helps to eliminate all the stupid, lazy or drunk potential tourists. If they are stupid enough not to find the button or lazy enough not to click it, they will not understand the web and they will fuck off to Marbella or Mallorca, leaving Galicia for tourists of “more quality”, that are the ones that bring money without chaos.

Nevertheless, given your total lack of culture and neurons I am surprised you finally decided to come to Galicia. What a pity!!

If you are not drunk when you come, I would like to discuss with you your theory of Galician being a dialect, based on a text you read last week and the opinions of your Catalan psychiatrist brother-in-law. We could offer you a seat in the Galician Royal Academy.

Eh? Galician? That’s not a language!…

_Thinking about escaping the rat race for a few days, I was idily visiting a few Spanish Tourism websites about the northwest coast. Now here’s a funny thing – all the “official” tourism websites for Galicia come up in that strange dialect of Castellan…

Thank goodness for English, eh? or we wouldn’t have a language in common to toss points at each other about who’s the dumbest.

I know that David is in Galicia this week, and am sure that he is being well received and treated by the Galicians and is certain to return home with stories about his trip, the excellence of the food, the beauty of the views… and the fact that everybody received him there en castellano. Or should he have taken a phrase-book?

If you want to speak about something, first learn about it. Galician it’s not a dialect of Spanish, Galician is a language with origins in latin (like spanish).

Galician IS a language, is my language!

O galego é unha lingua, a miña lingua!

Dave, why is it a dialect? Reading out the thread, I still do not know why do you consider Galician a dialect – and by the way, a dialect of…?

It is also quite strange -at least to me- that you choose your holiday destination according to the default language of an official website. The official tongue of Galicia is Galician… that is a good reason to have it as default language, isn’t it?

Besides, where is the adventurous spirit of yours? Just go to Galicia and then speak about it. Otherwise, why does internet exist then? To get fully biassed?

I saw some great graffitti in A Coruna along the beachfront. It said:
My father is Gallego (in Galician)
My Mother is Castellano (in Spanish)
Me? I just want to be rich!

Ti és parvo neno…

The englsh is a dialect of the german.
El inglés és un dialecto del alemán.
L’anglès és un dialecte de l’alemà.
La angla estas dialekto de la germana.
Le anglaise c’est un dialect de l’alemand.

Que borde. Creo que has demostrado los limites de tus poderes debativos, “La Puta Albion”.

Axe Grinder congrats for your good knowledge about galician.
I’m a galician and i find very accurate ansers.

Galego miña lingua!!

A ignorancia moi atrevidiña é.

Euskera*

No. No puedo.
Estoy harto de intentar educar a barbaros sin educación ni cultura, más allá del futbol y alcoholizados las veinticuatro horas del día en todas las costas de España.
Gentuza. Bárbaros sin ningún interés por nada que no sea beber hasta perder el sentido y, a ser posible, por el camino pelearse y destrozar todo lo que puedan.
Esa es la imagen que dais los británicos cuando os sacan como ganado de vuestro país.
Y no es ninguna excepción. Es la regla general.
No merecéis la pena.

So… Galician isn’t a language… what is it then, more like a understandable human noise?
After reading you’re post, I can’t even believe you did visit a single site neither had read a basic book about Galiza, because if you did you should know about 100% of galicians understand it, and most of them speak it all the time.
So maybe Galiza it’s not the best choice for your perfect spanglishspeaking vacations, for “oleole’s” and all that stuff you should better go to Andalucia.
By the way, are you american? (I ask it after your ridiculous historic and geographic knowledge).

@pakote

I did not made the speech of the century as you say. According to the Estatuto de Atunomia de Galicia, the official language is Galician, i.e. the language official at the Galician administration. Spanish (Castillian) is a co-official language within the administration. As you can see, it is not a bright invention, but a fact.

Besides, I do not vote nor I consider myself a nationalist. I guess neither you do.

Gibraltar español, ingleses, a buscar el sol a vuestro puto pais de mierda, putos colonos. Largo de aqui, sois lo peor de vuestra cultura de mierda.
Venis aqui a comer bien y vivir mejor ,hijos de la mierda real.

Sinn Féin amham!

Oglaigh na´h´Éiréann!

Freedom for Alba & Cymru!!

I can’t believe what I’m reading… somebody that accuses some nationalist from whom he even don’t know anything about of being something close to children eaters uses a 3 million people’s language as a weapon for your hate speech.
Who are you calling bastard? The only bastard I see around here is the one that discriminates against 3 million people just because he is to lazy to click on a stupid tab in some website.
Come on David, just apologize, read some books and then please consider asking for professional help, I’m serious.

Well, have a nice time in the Baske country, we don’t want people like you in Galicia. Bye

Come to Andalucia!!! Here aren’t problems with nationalism! óle!
Sun, beach and a lot of beauty girls!!

Please, be my guest and go to the vasque region instead of going to Galicia, certainly you are not the visitor Galicia needs. It is a fact that not any region of Spain needs more irrelevant tourist. People that don´t even bother to look at the REAL origin of a language, considering this as a basic part of being a tourist.

Don´t worry that´s exactly what makes Galicia different from mediterranean coast, which is the non-massive tourism, maybe because of the climate or maybe because the lack of chiringuitos on its beaches. THANKS GOD!!! when I visit beautiful Galicia I do not see drunk people every where, so I can have the real pleasure of the Atlantic breeze in a real natural sorrounding.

Si todos hablais castellano -viendo las expresiones que meteis ‘inglesizadas’ (en euskera tenemos una palabra para eso ‘erderakada’) es obvio-, ese idioma tan internacional que puede sustituir a vascuence, catalan y gallego… Pq hablais en ingles?

How depressing that the common denominator – very common – quickly becomes personal abuse. With one or two honourable exceptions like Erin. I would guess she is female and above the juvenile bile.

If you like beach and beach and beach… for you the CULTURE can dead.
If you like enjoy the CULTURE of a site, you like others languages, mountains, traditional dances…
Spanish has more languages (not dialects) from Latin.

This guy gives a shit about culture or languages, he’s just a troll living in a blog, can’t you see it? Just leave him alone, this scum only calms down this way.

David Jackson, has acabado poniéndote a la altura de los trolls que han venido a calentarte. Y eso, en tu propio weblog, no debería pasar nunca.

Inepto, cretino, analfabeto, cabeza cuadrada, inútil, necio, bobo, estúpido, zoquete, … TE LO PONGO EN CASTELLANO PA QUE LO ENTIENDAS!!!
Ni el galego, ni el euskera ni el catalán son dialectos, SON LENGUAS VIVAS CO-OFICIALES con el castellano en las regiones correspondientes…
GALIZA, EUSKAL HERRIA i CATALUNYA LIBRES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

In fact, you’re totally right…

This post/blog is a big intelligence offense.

Nacionalist = nerd

You’re totally right

Dado o teu perfil cultural aconsélloche que viaxes a Benidorm, Tenerife ou incluso que quedes na casa. Nós podemos entender que falar só inglés che supoña un trauma, pero ese é un problema teu que terás que superar na medida que vaias medrando. Para que poidas entendelo mellor, direiche que é parecido ó acné, na medida en que medres quitaránseche os complexos e aceptaraste tal e como eres, no teu caso inglés e non podes remedialo. En canto ó Galego e o Castelán dígoche o mesmo é cuestión de que leas un pouco antes de te expresar en público.

Bo día.

From David Jackson website:

“Books I like: Franco: A biography”

Enought said… a franco fanb0y…

@Galego: ¿Estrella de Galicia? No gracias, toda para vosotros…

Ps: El Terras Gaudas os sale mejor…

Nos quejamos de que no has dicho la verdad, porque no la conoces.
Porque con tus palabras, (y con esos datos disparatados, que teniendo internet no se de donde los has sacado) has demostrado no conocerla.

Y solo recibes insultos, porque nos has insultado. Y ojalá conocieses la verdad, la autentica realidad española, porque sólo así comprenderías hasta que punto nos has ofendido. Y eso que yo no soy Gallega, soy Asturiana, (y por tanto no hablo Gallego, sino Bable y Español).

Entraste en una pagina que estaba en Gallego, y si estaba en Gallego es porque indudablemente alguna razón habría para ello. No conoces esas razones, ni conoces la realidad gallega, asi que no te lances de buenas a primeras a criticar lo que no conoces.

¿Y quejarte de Nacionalismos?, ¿En Galicia? ¿sólo porque la página aparece en Gallego?… Me parece que estas un poco perdido.
Aunque lo que mas gracia me hace es leer que te quejas de nacionalismos, pero luego piensas en visitar Euskadi (Basque region) porque la página esta en español… En fin… suerte.

Y por cierto; Yo si recuerdo cuando Galicia fue un reino independiente.
Fue el reino suevo desde la liberacion romana hasta aproximadamente el siglo VI, entonces fue conformado Reino de Galicia, que comprendía toda Galicia y el norte de Portugal, mucho antes de que Portugal existiera como reino. Hacia el siglo X el reino de Galicia paso a formar parte de la corona de León y poco después pasó a formar parte del reino de Castilla, hacia el 1230. Sólo entonces podémos empezar a hablar de España.
Por supuesto, durante todo ese tiempo en Galicia se hablaba Gallego; lengua hablada y escrita que comenzó su decadencia hacia el 1460, cuando se imprime uno de los últimos textos en Gallego original, “La crónica de Iria”. A partir de entonces la lengua Gallega coexistió con el castellano.

No te pido que sepas todo esto, me basta con saberlo yo. Pero por favor, si no sabes algo o no lo conoces, no te lances a afirmar tus supociones o “lo que te han dicho”, como si fueran verdades irrefutables del universo, porque lo unico que consigues es un montón de disparates sin sentido.
Ojalá… ojalá te dieras cuenta de la imagen que nos has dado. Pero bueno, conocer realmente otra cultura no creo que cambiara tu vida, ni tampoco la mia. Así que da igual.

Queda dicho.

El gallego es una lengua, MI LENGUA, de un pais, Galiza, MI PAIS. Para nuestra desgracia nuestro pais esta integrada dentro de un estado imperialista que ha estado imponiendo su lengua y cultura durante siglos.

Esos politicos hijos de puta como tu los llamas estan intentando defender nuestra cultura para que no desaparezca, porque más hijos de puta son todos los españolistas que no son capaces de entender que somos distintos y que tenemos cultura propia

Y hay un dicho por aqui respecto a gente como tu:
los de fuera: mirar y dar tabaco

So many words just to prove your point, and to show your ignorance.

Galician language has existed for long, as you’ve admitted, and then you say just because the “Real Academia” was created in 20th century it is therefore officially a language only since then? WTF?

I guess I’d rather quote the Wikipedia since you won’t listen to anyone in your blog:

From the 8th century, Galicia was a political unit within the kingdoms of Asturias and Leon, but was able to reach a degree of autonomy, becoming an independent kingdom at certain times in the tenth, eleventh and twelfth centuries. Galician was the only language in spoken use, and Latin was used, to a decreasing extent, as a written language.

By the way, you’re so against Galician language, yet you still spell A Coruña instead of using La Coruña, which in your opinion might be more correct? Or even Corunna in english… who cares.

Please, if it’s too much trouble for you to read Galego, just click on the fucking english link and read the site in English. People like you have no interest in culture and protecting languages, so we could care less about you, but to Galegos, it’s a way of showing the world that we exist, our culture exists, and that we have our own language. The concepts of culture and language are so closely related that protecting our languages is as important as preserving our cultures. If you don’t give a shit about that, thank you, move along. If you do, you’re welcome to learn about the galician culture.

IT’S IRONIC that a tourist going to Galicia has no interest in the Galician culture and language, so much that you start such an angry rant. I mean, what the fuck?

Ante todo dejar clara mi postura; soy Asturiana.
Me considero nacionalista Asturiana; en el sentido de que estoy orgullosa de ser Asturiana y quiero lo mejor para mi tierra. Pero también soy española, nací con esa nacionalidad y nadie tiene derecho a quitármela. Pero no me quedo ahi, ¡resulta que también soy Europea!. ¡A falta de una, tengo tres nacionalidades!. Y Ojalá llegue un día que no existan las fronteras y los humanos podamos considerados nacidos en todas partes.
Pero el mundo no es tan maravilloso.

Lo maravilloso sería, que los politicos pudiesen sentarse tranquilamente a analizar el pasado junto con el presente en busca de un futuro mejor.
Pero resulta que en Galicia hay jubilados que el mes que viene no podrán pagar la luz, resulta que hay jóvenes que el més que viene no podrán pagar su hipoteca. Hay jóvenes en Galicia que su única salida es irse a Madrid para ganarse la vida, y dedicarse a añorar su tierra en la distancia.

La politica, las regiones y la economia son importantes; pero los examinas a fondo, descubres que estan echos de gente, y para la gente.
La politica tiene que proteger y representar a la gente, y los intereses politicos a corto plazo son importantes.
¡Porque hay gente que sólo tiene ese corto plazo! Cuando la gente pide algo, es porque lo necesita.

¿Quien dice que si la union del reino de Galicia con Leon y Castilla, fue un proceso natural, no puede ser también la creación del estatut un proceso natural?
¿Cuándo, en toda la historia humana, se han echo unas negociaciones que no hayan sido valoradas por intereses a corto plazo? Los seres humanos no vivimos tanto. Pero necesitamos comer cada día.

El gallego es un idioma derivado directamente del latín; tiene una tradición oral y escrita de muchos siglos; no es un dialecto del castellano. Ni gallego, ni castellano, ni catalán, ni vasco, ni ninguna otra lengua, deberían de verse nunca afectadas por prohibiciones derivadas de la política. Cualquier persona que sea persona debería de intentar comunicarse con quien se dirija a él, en el idioma que sea; y en Galicia sucede eso (y por las veces que he estado en Cataluña y el País Vasco, también); ve a cualquier pueblo recóndito de las provincias de Ourense o Lugo, donde más se habla gallego, y verás como la gente se esfuerza en que les entiendas;si te encuentras excepciones en algún sitio, pues pregunta a otra persona, y no generalices en tus conclusiones sobre todo un pueblo.Si la dichosa página web estaba en una de las lenguas oficiales de Galicia, y existe la posibilidad de traducirla para que se entienda en distintos idiomas,no nos trates a los gallegos de intransigentes y nacionalistas;acepta y respeta la variedad cultural que, afortunadamente, tenemos en nuestra tierra.

First of all, I must apologise for misusing English language, but if you think about it with some historical perspective, is English really a language? No, it is not. It is just a creole, a mixture of two dialects: a Germanic dialect spoken only by barbarian and rustic people (Old Saxon) and the pathetic Latin dialect spoken by the Normans (some sort of extremely corrupted French, which, in turn, is another extremely corrupted form of Latin spoken by another barbarian tribe, the Francs). In fact, during the Norman domination of England, the Germanic dialects were about to disappear completely in favour of, lets call it, “French”. When “English” was (re)imposed as the language of the Kingdom, it was already a, inefable creole, as it is today, more similar to spiting than to actual speaking.

As for Spanish, Castilian language was born in the Kingdom of Castile, which later became an Empire, thus spreading (= imposing) its own language, culture and religion on many territories across the world (by killing,torturing and expatriating millions).

Of course, this long process begun with the other kingdoms of the Iberian Peninsula (they succeeded in Galiza and Al-Andalus and they failed in Portugal, thanks to England’s support).

Galician kingdon was the matrix of two kingdons: Galiza and Portugal. The portuguese language was therefore born in Galiza and it is still spoken there (where it is referred to as Galician or Galician-Portuguese). Thus, galician language is by no means a ‘regional’ language, but an international and wide-spread one).

No question that the Spanish authorities have always tried to isolate galician language from the Portuguese world to which it belongs and convert it into a Spanish dialect, which, on top of it, was proscribed during the fascist dictatorship of your admired General Francisco Franco.

I beleive that after several centuries of repression and colonialism, we Galicians, should now have the right to educate our kids in our own language (which is an internationally useful language still spoken by most of the Galician population). If the fact that we are in Spain is going to be the excuse to keep on prohibiting our language and culture, well, then maybe we should not be in Spain… Of course we will never renounce to the treasure of the spanish language (which, by the way, is more correctly spoken in Galiza than it is in Madrid), but we firmly demand respect for our own: galician-portuguese language, which was born in Galiza.

David, ya que entendemos castellano, permíteme usarlo (no puedo redactarlo tan bien en inglés)

El gallego es uno de los cuatro idiomas oficiales en España, junto con el catalán, el euskera y evidentemente el castellano.

Como puedes apreciar, descerebrados existen en todos los países. En este blog se demuestra en parte tu ignorancia con la frase “Eh? Galician? That’s not a language!”, pero también el primitivismo reaccionario y estúpido de algún gallego que “argumenta” a base de ladridos, y encima, se cree en la posesión de la verdad por el mero hecho de soltar espuma por la boca.

Bien, la diversidad lingüística enriquece a los pueblos y a las gentes que los habitan. (tal y como comentan “Me” (vasco) o “penedo” desde su colegio internacional danés).

El problema viene, a mi entender, cuando se utiliza un idioma para darle un valor diferenciador, pero no en el sentido de ser diferente, ya que lo es, sino para excluir todo lo demás. Es decir, buscan como pretexto un idioma y una cultura para ahogar a la que cohabita con ella. Soy gallego, pero como se dice aquí soy “un can de palleiro” es decir “un mil leches”, vamos que no tengo pedigrí (padre gallego madre leonesa) y me duele ver como lo “nacional” venga de donde venga se transforma en “lo verdadero”.

Galicia tiene una entidad cultural y lingúística propia pero eso no hace que piense en ella como algo ajeno a lo demás. Es decir no concibo España sin Galicia ni Galicia sin España (lo mismo siento con Euskadi o Cataluña). Al igual que no me planteo una Europa sin Portugal, Francia o Hungría. Creo que los valores históricos, culturales y lingüísticos jamás se deben perder.

También creo que aquellos que se niegan a educar a sus hijos en el bilingüismo por haber tenido la suerte de nacer en Galicia (por ejemplo) y rechazan el castellano, están perdiendo cultura, educación y riqueza. Para todos aquellos que el “curruncho” es lo auténtico solo decir que yo me niego a empobrecer a los míos.

Un saludo.

“que che dean polo cú” means “get your ass fucked”

si entiendes castellano y te hablan en gallego, entenderás mejor que si te hablan en euskera / if you understand spanish, and anyone speaks you in galician, you’ll understand better than euskera.

El gallego es una lengua registrada históricamente desde el siglo XIII…
Los políticos, que tú dices nos manipulan para usarlo a favor del nacionalismo, no son NADA en la historia del gallego.. Aquí se habla gallego desde antes de que existan los “políticos”.

Eres un ignorante y un sobrado XDDDD

Just one word! F U C K I N G ignorant!!!!

sorry two…..

Hijo de puta ignorante

Unfortunately our (still common) country, Spain, has some wounds which nowadays certain people are protecting from healing. We should not forget where we do come and instead of arising our differences, enjoy our common features.

The argument of a different, independent, culture cannot be based on a language. A gallego speaking spanish is not a real gallego? Now the rest of local politicians are rubbing their hands together searching for a language spoken once in that territory in order to ask for a nationality, and therefore for power.

Communication should be our goal, and unfortunately if everybody goes for a different language, dialect, slang… instead of going forward we would go backwards to a kind of Babel society were no one understands each other and it is all mumbo jumbo…

It is a game we play, but rules are not ours, they are carefully planned and given from local governments; we just follow their guidelines and repeat their proclamations. You can read papers, books, search the internet… but it is needed a bit of your own work to assimilate all and have your opinion – I know it is hard work since it requires you to read more papers than your favourite newspaper and sort out what YOU think from what OTHERS want you to think (as you may know already, there is never just one view of the same reality, so unless you hear a few versions you won’t have a proper idea of what happens).

Why not going even to a preliminary age? Why not returning to Latin? Or even further, to the language our ancestors spoke when there were no more than some thousands of people in the Iberian Peninsula (B.C.)?

Was an idiot or a visionary the man who suggested a common language (esperanto) which can be us by all human beings to communicate? I certainly think he was a visionary.

A final question, would these regions act as they ask the Spanish government to in case of a similar demand from a part of that region? (Pontevedra demanding being a nation and asking for its own right to decide apart from Galicia, Girona from Cataluña, Guipuzcoa from Basque country… and then O Grove wanting to be a nation apart from Pontevedra, Galicia, España and Europe, all because their language is a mixture of Latin, Spanish, Galician, Portuguese, English…). Doesn’t it look like walking back the road?

It would be a pity if in a few years we have to thank english for being the only way a gallego, a vasco, a catalan and a andaluz can have a conversation, when years before they all could have communicated in spanish.

Serás animal… o galego non é un dialecto… so porque algunhas webs teñan como idioma predeterminado o galego xa son só para galegos? se tanto che custa darlle a una bandeira pequeniña na parte esquerda da pantalla para que cho poña no teu moito mais ilustrado idioma de william shakespeare enton que carallo queres vir facer a Galicia???

Seguro que vir comer marisco e beber “albaritos”… vai raña-los collons por ahí…

E despois sodes os anglo-parlantes os que non traducides unha web na mais que cando queredes vender algo…

Vai ó Pais Vasco, que alí seguro que che falan castelan para que te encontres mais agusto… asi che metan unha botella de txakoli polo cu…

Agora traduce isto no google, a ver se che aparece por ahí un “octopus to the party”…

Hai que joderse…

Oh you old freak troll. No one visited your crappy blog. You should thank the Galicians for the AdSense money you’ll receive thanks to them

Franco Franco
que tiene el culo blanco
porque su mujer
lo lava con Ariel

Donha Sofia lo lava con lejia
tralaralala laralaralala

Watch & Learn:
[admin: removed link to some brazilian video nonsense]

Well ,it’s a pity you’ve removed the link I posted to a youtube video showing people from England,Scotland,Japan,Russia and Mexico speaking in Galician…
Actually it´s funny because you said it was “brazilian nonsense”, therefore you thought they’re speaking in brazilian portuguese so maybe you’re right and the Galego it’s a dialect after all.
In fact ,there’re some linguists who consider Galician,Brazilian and Portuguese as dialects of the same language.It makes sense if you compare them:

“Olá,chamo-me David e sou Inglês” (Portuguese)
“Ola,chámome David e son Inglés” (Galician Official Spelling)

That’s “Hola,me llamo David y soy Inglés” for you.

Sorry mate, I underestimated you,actually, you’re kinda genius in linguistics . I truly think you should just try to develop your theories in a more articulate way.

Ok,try again the “brazilian video nonsense”:
http://br.youtube.com/watch?v=CSEK86ZhScE

Hi:
I have seen several post that I agree a lot with, like those of Axe Grinder and Asturiana.
But, Wow! how many comments just for not clicking a link. It is really hilarious, and I do not pretend to insult, call you ignorant nor anything other people, surely feeling insulted about the comment about Galician language.
Personally, I do not agree with your vision about nationalism. I feel myself a nationalist, and , no I do not hate spaniards, nor think about them as devil nor anything similar.
I think it was you who said that nationalism was some kind of feeling superior to other people. My position is just the opposite, I think that nationalism is a reaction against a feeling (that may be fair or not) of inferiority. It may be true that this is oportunisticly used by some nationalist parties (as in everything), but the feeling goes first.
You said that Galician is an ideal. I can’t agree with that. I do agree that nationalism may be an ideal, but Galician is a fact, is a way of communication between people of NW of the Iberic Peninsula. It may be true that just speaking Galician does not differs us from other people in Spain, but I guess that you surely have appreciated several differences between them and us (as long as there are similarities as well)
Nevertheless, I hope you to have enjoyed our (call it the best way for you: country, region, place…) and to have learnt something about our culture, as I did when I was abroad, in so different countries as Portugal, USA or UK. Open-mindness is the clue, I think. And you?

I tell you, I’m loving this. Amazing. You learn more in 10 mins here then in 10 years in uni.

Also – Xavy. I think that in English you can defend nationalism (social cohesion – being proud of ones local community) versus Nationalism (Nazis).

Xavy,

I think you would be a Galicianist [Galleguista] in the set of definitions I had in my blog this week. As David says, no one could possibly have any objection to this attitude.

Thank-you for showing others how to disagree and be polite at the same time.

@Me

I’m not sure who ‘we’ is in this sentence – Everyone involved or just you and me.

As it happens, I do agree with you on several points. And I don’t know why you are so pessimistic about explaining things to a Brit living in Spain. Especially English people who might have views – one way or another – on Scotland leaving the UK.

Some English people are, in fact, trying to push Scotland out of the Union, which I doubt is the case in spin of the BC, Cataluña and/or Galicia.

You say everyone is a nationalist but I guess those Brits/Spaniards who don’t give a damn what happens to the constituent parts of their current state could be described as non-nationalists. I’m sure they exist. Possibly called anarchists.

BTW – with the gf analogy, you are confusing me with my elder daughter . . . . Being more pragmatic, if I’d left things so long, I’d expect her to realise the relationship was dead and so end it herself. It’s called the chicken’s way out.

‘We’ is basically everyone involved. This is an ooooold discussion. Have had it once and again for years. And this is a topic difficult and complicated enough to discuss in person, to do it in a message board in Internet, mostly pointless. Some people is reasonable and try to view the things from a different perspective, true enough, but most just come to shout their own point of view without actually listening what other people might have to say.

I am pessimistic about explaining this to a Brit living in Spain, yes. I am because I picture myself on the opposite situation. I imagine myself as a foreigner living in England. Sure I can speak English good enough to read the press and interact with the locals (or so I think) but I will always be and alien in that society, difficult for me to understand its idiosyncracies no matter how well I try to blend in.

As I see it, it is even difficult for a local to understand the problem correctly because usually there is a lot of misinformation due to the press and its partisan role. Coming back to the case we were discussing, the linguistic policies in Galician. Do you really believe that someone, brit, Spaniard, whatever, living in Almeria do actually have enough information to make an informed judgment?. (Spanish) National press will always, and truly always, only publishes the most stupid ideas any nationalist might have. And even then they will put them as out of context as possible to make them look even worse. And you know what is the worst?: people love that they do it. The press quality level in is Spain is lame, really lame.

And regarding my analogy. Substitute gf for wife and my point is still stronger. You might want to divorce your wife, but still if she is the one taking the first step it will probably hurt you more than if you were the one taking it. No matter how convinced you are that that’s the right thing to do. But the point I try to make is that this, at the end, is also about feelings not only about pragmatism.

@Me

Excellent points. I will ponder them during my siesta – what Steinbeck called the Committee of Sleep – and write again later.

I do like to think that a Brit living in Galicia would have a better grasp than a Brit living outside Galicia. After all, Axe Grinder is a Brit and I suspect he lives in the UK. Despite this, his views must be welcome to most, if not all, Gallegos. Though you may be the exception.

I shall have to ask my Spanish-born, half-Gallego, half Brit [ex] stepson what he thinks of it all. He is very politicised.

More anon.

I’d just like to bring Axe Grinders attention to the post in this blog (nothing to do with me, honest, I just want to wind him up again as he’s funny when incoherent with rage)>
http://spanishshilling.blogspot.com/2008/08/future-is-mine-im-pretty-sure-he-said.html

@Me;
First of all allow me to compliment you on your wonderful grasp of the English language.

As I said before, maybe I didn’t take into account the “nationalist” (Nationalist?) feeling that underlies the many furious comments on this posting.

Why?

Not, I feel, because I am a “Brit” living in Almeria. I have lived there since I was 8; my gf is a local, 95% of my friends from childhood are locals.

But because I, as a person, simply feel that this level of local nationalistic feelings are tonto. Yes, I am proud of where I live, I like it to be clean and tidy, and I take interest in local affairs. And were it invaded then I would probably up arms along with everybody else to defend it to the death.

But this type of self belief, of “belonging” on so many different levels (local, regional, national, european) is, to me, academic and unreal. And it’s because I’m 100% from the centre, Andalucia does not have any real culture of “nationalism” and nor does England.

I don’t want a particular flag flying over the town hall, or a certain type of mentality making the laws. I want a stable economy, a clean and pleasant place to live and friendly people around me. I don’t care if they speak English, Castellano, Basque, Gallego, French, Arab, Russian, whatever, as long as we all rub by and get on with life.

And I can no more understand how these people feel then I can understand why people believe in a god. Yes, I can analyse the feelings, the sentiments, the logic behind it – but that secret personal spark of belief eludes me.

@Me

I take all your points, especially about the internet being a poor substitute for verbal discussion over a few beers.

BTW – I think ‘fundamental’ may have been a false friend here. In my use of it, I just meant ‘basic’, not the Spanish meaning of ‘extreme’.

Best wishes. Contact me if you come to Galicia for the beers. colindavies@terra.es

@Galedon

I believe David’s fundamental/basic point is that having the first page in Gallego was a reflection of:-
1. Nationalists politics, which he dislikes, and
2. A failure to recognise that most people accessing the site were likely to be non-Galicians. Therefore, it’s good business practice to reflect this. and not just by having a button to click for a translation. As I’ve already said, it would surely be possible to have the page in both Gallego and Castellano. David’s view, I believe, is that it is nationalist politics which prevents this, not just a desire to promote the local language.

Yes, his first post was [very] provocative – showing his irritation – but I don’t believe he has anything at all against Gallego. Nor its promotion – in sensible ways – in Galicia. Then it all comes down to what is ‘sensible’. And polite. If you have a lot of Spanish visitors to Galicia, it is arguable that it is both sensible and polite to put the road signs in both languages, as is done elsewhere in the world. But nationalist politics here [and in Cataluña?) prevent this. David objects to this. And so do I, despite seeing myself as a Galleguista.

BTW – As you probably know, ‘sensible’ means ‘rational’ in English. another false friend

@ Colin Davis

“Nor its promotion – in sensible ways – in Galicia.”
What do you mean by sensitive ways? Something like allowing non Galician speakers to keep all the reins of powers in their own hands, as it has always been the case in Galicia? By the way, did you know that those who wrote the infamous site in Galician are Spanish speakers, and only part time Galician (poor) speakers, when it suits them?

“If you have a lot of Spanish visitors to Galicia, it is arguable that it is both sensible and polite to put the road signs in both languages, as is done elsewhere in the world.”

Well, I say that if you have a lot of Galician visitors (as you do) to, let’s say, Madrid, it is arguable that it is both sensible and polite to put the road signs in both languages, Spanish and Galician. However, this is not happening, all signs are in Spanish!

Do we have double standards here?

By the way, I don’t doubt you are “galleguista”.

@admin

“According to Free Tibet Campaign, the Chinese authorities occupying Tibet are making life impossible for Tibetans who are not fluent in Mandarin Chinese by passing laws to minimise teaching of Tibetan in schools and by replacing Tibetan language with Chinese language in many spheres of public life.”
http://www.freetibet.org/newsmedia/report-reveals-determined-chinese-assault-tibetan-language

Now, you change in that paragraph Tibet and Tibetan for Galicia and Galician and then China and Chinese by Spain and Spanish and you get the picture of what has been going on in Galicia for the las half a century.

Leaving apart the marketing “stunt” of the oficial self-governing bodies in Galicia (in collusion with the centralist government, which by allowing that kind of “cosmetics” obtains much more in terms of securing the control over Galicia), my argument is only valid and true if you believe in the rights of peoples and cultures, being Tibetan, Wesh or Galician …

@Galardon

Firstly, I tried to make it clear that the English ‘sensible’ does not equal the Spanish ‘sensible’ = ‘sensitive’ in English. But you still use ‘sensitive’ in your question to me.

Secondly, are Touriño, Quintana and the previous BNG President [Beira?] all non-Galego speakers? They seem to use nothing else to me. But perhaps you think they use the ‘wrong’ Galego. I know the mayors of Pontevedra and Poio only speak Galego but, again, it might be the wrong sort.

I’m afraid you seem to suffer from 2 of the things that make nationalists so unconvincing:-
1. A sense of victimhood and resentment, and
2. A belief that Galicia is the equal of Spain and that Gallego is equal in status and importance to Spanish.

I’m afraid they’re not. Galicia is a region of Spain and, if you want it to be an independent nation, you had better found a party different from the BNG and try to convince Galicians that this is what they want/need. Until this happens – if ever – you might be better advised to accept current realities.

Additionally, while Gallego is a co-official language here, is it not the language of the Spanish state, to which Galicia belongs. As David has said, it is impractical – if not silly – to suggest that all the regional languages are used outside the regions, or even just in Madrid.

If you do start a new party, then you – as the president – can presumably check the language skills of everyone who wants to join so that only those who speak the right Galego can be members. A Castrapo-free party. That would be impressive.

Censor this:

FREEDOM FOR TIBET

@ Galedon

I’m afraid you’ve completely lost me. Rhetorically, are we to put the Galicians and the Tibetans in the same box as victims of some murderous, imperialist oppressor? I guess so.

And I guess your mis-spelling of my name is a deliberate – and juvenile – mistake. Hilarious.

Adios.

1. Do the Tibetan people have the right to use their language in school, in the public life, etc?
Yes
2. Do they have the right to name their place names in Tibetan?
Yes, and Mandarin Chinese
3. Do they have the right to write sign roads in Tibetan?
Yes, with Mandarin Chinese and the Latin script

@ Erin
If they have these three fundamental rights, why is the Chinese government intentionally and systematically undermining them?:
http://www.freetibet.org/newsmedia/report-reveals-determined-chinese-assault-tibetan-language
“According to Free Tibet Campaign, the Chinese authorities occupying Tibet are making life impossible for Tibetans who are not fluent in Mandarin Chinese by passing laws to minimise teaching of Tibetan in schools and by replacing Tibetan language with Chinese language in many spheres of public life.”
“Anne Holmes, campaign manager of Free Tibet Campaign, said: “To further its goal of making Mandarin the lingua franca of Tibet, the authorities are encouraging mass migration by Han Chinese who have no need or desire to learn Tibetan. Now Tibetan parents must choose between their unique culture and their children’s future.”
“Norman Baker MP, a member of the UK All Party Parliamentary Group for Tibet, endorsed this call, saying: “The Chinese government are following a deliberate policy of extinguishing all that is Tibetan, including their own language in their own country. It may be obvious, but Tibetan should be the official language of Tibet. The world must act. Time is running out for Tibet.”
http://www.freetibet.org/files/Forked(4).pdf

@ lenox

“What’s that got to do with Galicia?”

Well, I don’t know, perhaps you can tell me.

@ Colin Davies

So, let’s see your true colours, buddy:
1. Do the Tibetan people have the right to use their language in school, in the public life, etc?
2. Do they have the right to name their place names in Tibetan?
3. Do they have the right to write sign roads in Tibetan?

I’ve been raised in both Galego and Castellano. The only language at my grandparent’s place was Galego. Not because they where nacionalists (they were not at all) or politically biased in terms of language usage. They used Galego because it was their language, their parents’ language, and the language of everybody around in their local environment. Nobody in my family ever cared about if Galego was a dialect or a language. It’s what they talked, and what has been talked for ages by many people in Galicia (even under the pressures of fascism to get rid of it by fully banning it from public usage and education)

It was as simple as that. And as as Galician native, I do really prefer things in Galego. Not to piss off or disregard anyone. But just because it’s my first and main language. Of course, I can speak perfect Castellano, like people in Galicia do in the same proportion as any other place in Spain. Simply it’s impossible for a galician native nowadays not to talk Castellano.

Publishing the main pages of the Xunta de Galicia official sites in Galego is not excluding anyone. Specially if there are visible links to the versions in wide known languages.

I’m right now visiting Finland (beautiful country, by the way) Finland tourism pages are always in Suomi, but a english version can be easily accessed, they’re just one click away. Thinking that exposing that pages in Suomi in first place (obviously not a worldwide language) is excluding, would be naive and self-victimist.

You can say now that Soumi is the official language of Finland (co-official with swedish, just for the record), and Finland is a country with a state. But IMO, this is an sterile argument. Galego is the first and common language for many people in Galicia, no matter its official status, nor its co-officiality with Castellano. And as it is our first language, we use it. Period.

I would like to point as well, that I consider a matter of respect to care about what people talk and their history in any place I happen to visit. And this is because that elements are part of the richness of that local culture. To disregard a language is equal to say that you don’t care about their culture (being the language a key element to it) And that is truly offensive.

And yes, it can make life somewhat more complicated. But you have to cope with it. Something I have come up with is that if two people have the will to communicate, they will, no matter what they talk.

Different languages should be considered as richness, not as annoyances.

Funny. This pro-Spanish British are really funny. Probably, ignorant of their own history as they usually are, they do not know they are going against one of the most long-standing English traditions: harassing Spain

Not only England has always supported Portugal’s independence against Castilian’s pretensions. Not only its army has always fought and defeated the Spanish ones. Not only they sent against the Spaniards all kind of pirates and corsairs.

No, on top of it, they tried to conquered Galiza in several occasions, they conspired, at least three times, to restore an independent Galician Kingdom (once with the involvement of the bishop of Santiago de Compostela).

Furthermore, the House of Lancaster claimed in several occasions, the first time on June 25th 1386 they where the legitimate heirs of the Galician crown.

But of course, since the times that the Iron Lady decided it was much more convenient to have an illiterate Britain, they just do not know better, the poor ones.

So, keep on speaking that creole dialect of your and leave us in peace.

Of course, I love creole languages like English!

By the way, I have lived (I mean lived as worked, not just visited as a tourist) in six countries. In fact, I have not lived in Galicia for the last six years. And, yes, that is how I came to hate nationalism. However, when living in France and Spain, I realised that the real nationalism, the most dangerous, stupid and obnoxious one, is the state-backed nationalism, the nationalism of countries who already have a state and an army. That is pure brain-washing chauvinism.

On the contrary, I can understand better the identitarian and political vindications of “nations” whose identity and right to existence is continuously questioned and denied. Something similar happens with the small new nations, whose independence is or was for a long time somehow threatened. Traveling around the globe, I have discovered that most of these people, are not genuine nationalist, but just circumstantial ones, because they are not essentialist. Unlike you French, Spaniards and British nationalist with all your brainless chauvinism.

Erin, according to the Spanish Constitution, knowledge of Spanish is COMPULSORY in all the territories of the Kingdom of Spain. Using other languages is a right in their territories but by no means compulsory. So, on the most benevolent interpretations, that is a very asymmetric case of co-officiality.

CONSTITUCIÓN ESPAÑOLA

TITULO PRELIMINAR

Artículo 3.

1. El castellano es la lengua española oficial del Estado. Todos los españoles tienen el deber de conocerla y el derecho a usarla.

2. Las demás lenguas españolas serán también oficiales en las respectivas Comunidades Autónomas de acuerdo con sus Estatutos.

What would they say about us if we make Galician-Portuguese language compulsory? Ah, this Spanish nationalists are so funny…

@ Serxio

Congratulations for the honesty, insight and clarity of your explanations, as well as for your respectful and calm tone. Let’s hope other galicians (and non galicians) take note and follow your example.

However, I just want to disagree with you in a point: while it is true that all galicians understand perfectly well Castilian (at least since the mid XIX century) not all of them can speak it to an acceptable level. Furthermore, if you come from the rural environment you must know that some Galicians never speak Castilian beyond some loose phrases and that they would struggle to maintain a conversation in that tongue, despite the efforts invested by the education and public life in Castilian.

@ Colin Davies

Congratulations for your skills in eluding my questions. I think you should apply for Galician nationality, you really deserve it. Anyway, don’t worry. Since I am a very patient and sympathetic individual, I am going to give you (yet) another chance:

So, let’s see your true colours, buddy:
1. Do the Tibetan people have the right to use their language in school, in the public life, etc?
2. Do they have the right to name their place names in Tibetan?
3. Do they have the right to write sign roads in Tibetan?

First of all, I don’t think we need to worry about what happened in 1386.
Second, to compare Galicia with Tibet is to make light of the suffering of the Tibetians and possibly one of the most offensive comments on this long thread.
Thirdly, Sir John Moore anyone?

Sorry, what suffering? Are you confusing the Galicia we are talking about (Spain) with somewhere else? And why do you keep harping on about Tibet?

What the devil are you talking about?

1.No 2.No 3.No

In Galicia?
1.Yes 2.Yes 3.Yes

Are you trying to convince me that the somewhat effeminate local police in A Coruna (pitufos I believe the nickname is) are actually crack Madrid paratroopers who drag anybody who dares to talk in Gallego out of sight of the tourists and shoots them?

“Uggh!” is the most eloquent thing that the supporters of the Spanish supremacy in Galiza could possibly say and have actually said in the whole stupid thread.

You should care more about Scotland and Wales, not to mention Northern Ireland (by the way, Spain also supported Ireland’s independence), and leave the Spanish nationalists alone to deal with us. They are doing a very good job anyway (without your help).

Tiocfaidh Ár Lá!

@Galedon

I haven’t answered your questions so far as I have been nonplussed by the brilliance of your arguments.

I did wonder about accepting your offer and answering them in French Creole, Persian or Indonesia, [3 of the languages I have learned] but decided this would be too much, even for a man of your erudition.

Anyway, I bow to your superior brain. Galicia is Tibet. Pure genius.

You can demonstrate this genius further if you like – at my expense if you want – but I am so overwhelmed by it I have decided to leave the world and to enter a Trappist monastery so that I can pray that the poor downtrodden Tibetans and Galicians be liberated from the tyranny that oppresses them and that the evil Chinese and Spanish empires are quickly destroyed.

I do hope God listens to bastardised creole as well as to his own language, Gallego.

Goodbye, cruel world.

It owes you a big favour.

@ Admin

Thank you very much for your answers. Unfortunately, on this occasion, you have not been successful.
The correct answers for them three questions are as follows:
1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Yes.

But don’t despair, I take you to the next step (2):

If the Tibetan people are entitled to these human rights, why is the Chinese government denying them and/or undermining them? (Note: This is a long question, but that wandering off the subject of it will not count towards your argument)

Just a few lines for the Tibet freedom supporters; I do not think we all live in a black and white world. Being this said, if you let me choose between a communist society (Chinese) and a feudal one (Tibet) I guess I have less limited personal and social right living under the red star; however, none of them is my cup of tea. I hope you get my point.

Galician langauge suffers a “prima inter pares” co-officiality syndrome. So, I insist, the Galician government has the political right and the moral obligation -yes, moral obligation- to promote, to take care and to boost the usage of Galician since the Constitution undermines its status.

And what if we are not in Galiza? We have been forced to exile, either for economical or political reasons, or both as a consequence of the Spanish colonialism (and its Galician puppets).

But, I insist, I would not worry too much about Galiza. Scotland will be the first Western European nation in achieving its independence and the one who will open the door to freedom for the others.

So, instead of being here helping the Spaniards (who, by the way, must be laughing at you while watching a corrida and dancing some flamenco), you should better go home and bark your resentment to the Queen.

Last night, I was with a group of erudite young (30ish) middle class professionals, all of them either Gallego, Asturian or Basque, who had been gathered to show us the town.
Now, the bars in A Coruna do a wonderful line in Caprihinhas, so my memories of the later part of the evening are somewhat hazy, but a pleasent time was had by all.
Interestingly, when I brought up (at about 1ish) the topic of regional languages, it was greeted with howls of laughter. The gf mentioned this blog, and the bartender (from Pontevedra) asked me why I had stirred up the nutters (his words, he used the English word). Someone who shall be nameless, but is standing for the Diputacion in the next election (for a local Gallego party) said that there were too many of these “hijo putas” around. All of these young professionals (a company director, two accountants, young politician, etc) all agreed that regional languages was an issue that had been settled in Spain and that the new estatut financial agreements were far more important then arguing about this. They also complained that the issue of Gallego was a smokescreen being thrown up by the local Xunta to disguise the fact that they had lost control over the negotiations with Madrid.
I also asked them about whether it was true that there were people up in the mountains who can’t speak Castellano. Much discussion, but not one of them could remember a single Gallego from their childhood who couldn’t speak either Castellano or, and this is important, Portuguese. (The Basque knew some people from the Basque country, and it was reckoned there could be an Asturian somewhere).
They agreed that it was important to keep Gallego going, but that in many cases it was being taken too far.
And these were the conclusions from the young professionals. I wrote them down on a napkin so as to be sure to remember them the next day.

I mean the FSM!!!

@ Admin

I am still waiting for your answer, buddy!
Come on! I know you can do it! Just show us your great knowledge!

“If the Tibetan people are entitled to these human rights, why is the Chinese government denying them and/or undermining them? (Note: This is a long question, but that wandering off the subject of it will not count towards your argument)”

I strongly object at this youtube link by Rui Rude!
http://br.youtube.com/watch?v=CSEK86ZhScE

How they dare to use the noble and ancient, beautiful and most mellifluous Galician tongue, those foreigners?!

A Scottish woman speaking Galician? Very weird indeed. A Japanese woman?! Come on, you are not serious. What next? A Chinese speaking Welsh?! An Englishman speaking French creole?!

I demand a law that forbids non Galicians speak Galician! I demand the Guardia Civil rounds up all these new age subversive anarchists non-Galicians and kicks them out of the (Roman catholic) Kingdom of Spain!

@ Admin
Oh! Buddy, I have to say that I am not very impressed by your choice of language. Not only that you have written a very poor answer: If you had bothered to read the question in detail (a very common mistake, unfortunately), you would have realised that there was a reference specifying that wandering off the matter of the question will get you nowhere: the question was about Tibet, not Galicia.
You see, what happens is that you are throwing a lot of punches in the air, because you can’t see me, and your are reaching well well off the mark. That is not a good strategy when you don’t know your opponent’s strengths or weaknesses, and you should know better.

Anyway, don’t worry about this failure, I’ll chalk it up to a caipirinhas bad digestion coming off your rear in the form of distorted knowledge, and I will give you more opportunities to show your knowledge and, more importantly, your true colours, buddy.

English language is a creole. This is not pejorative or insulting, it is just a fact. It is not a Germanic language, for it has lost the declinations (nowadays it is a structural language as all of the Latin dialects) and the more “educated” is the context, the less Germanic words you use (they are mostly Latin terms taken either from French or directly from Latin). However, it is not a Romance language either, because it is too bastardised with Germanic words (more or less degraded). In fact, English is one of languages taken into account to build up the pan-Romance artificial language Interlingua.

Thus, English is a creole. Colloquial English is more Germanic (without being Germanic) and “educated” English is more Latin (without being a Romance language). We could coin a new linguistic term to define English language: “schizophrenic creole”.

Off topic: Galician and Portuguese are the same language which was born in Galiza. It is like British English and American English or Iberian Castilian and Latin-American Castillian. If the Americans had decide to call their language “American”, everybody will call English language just “American” and the word English would only have a residual use. That is exactly what happens with Galician-Portuguese.

And thanks FSM (God) that the Normans brought some refined words (even if rather corrupted) to England, otherwise I cannot imagine what would English be like… It would be like Lenox trying to imitate his Neanderthal ancestors XD

Modern English, as I said, perfectly reflect sthe diglossia that existed between Old Saxon and Norman “French”.

Pig (animal, Saxon) – Pork (meal, French)
Cow (animal, Saxon) – Beef (meal, French)
etc., etc., etc.

Your point being?

at a time WHEN

A) They were not “English”. They spoke Middle ages French because they were French.
B) The servents under the stairs spoke either Saxon or regional languages or Danish or whatever, depending on where they where.
C) Over time, these mix. (Yes, I skipped quite a few steps but it’s late). That’s why we have so many double words for things, beef for the meat and cow for the animal.

Pidgins and creoles are the early steps of a language, usually caused when two different speaking cultures collide. They are inherently unstable. They eventually, if lucky, form a coherent language which then proceeds to evolve.

What poetry are you talking about? Galician Portuguese was just an organisedd version of vulgur latin. Nothing much to do with modern Fala, which I’m on about.

@ Admin
I apologise again. It is indeed creole (in its wide genetic sense) the proper term.

Oh my God, you know my name! Who told you!? How did you find out about my place and my drink?! Come on, you have to tell me!
Do you run a search on all those who challenge your views or is it only with me, for me insistence on Tibet? Did you contact the Chinese embassy?

I appreciate your interest in my personal life, buddy, but, to be honest, I don’t see it of any relevance towards this debate. I rather the next time I pose a question to you, being about Tibet, Galicia or any other relevant matter, you don’t dodge the question. Believe me, you can dodge one, and another one, and the next one, but it will come down to a single one, eventually, and that will be you showing us your true colours, buddy.

Bless. You were the one who told me to find out more about you, in order to be able to debate with you, remember?

Actually, now that I’ve found out some more about you I’ve been looking at your postings on other forums about Galician independence and you make bugger all sense there too. So you’ll forgive me if I continue with my life undisturbed by you, and the other twits who think they’re being clever with their vague definitions and circuitious logic. Just because A is always B doesn’t mean B is always A, ya know….

Sadly, you’re probably right Colin. Can’t see anything of substance coming out of the thread now.

So, what have we learnt after all this? Well, not a much. Quite an insight into knee jerk reactions and petty Nationalism, which once back in my beloved Almeria I shall have to write up. No doubt causing yet more letters.

We’ve had some fun, we’ve examined some of the finer details of how people with one Galician greatgrandfather think, and we have advanced the total sum of human knowledge not one knol.

The best post? Probably the one who lombards me for racial steorotypings and insensitivity towards others then called me “American”.

It’s probably a good idea to close this post together with my little holiday here in Galicia. If you have anything interesting or pertinent to say, just contact me and maybe I’ll reopen it. Maybe not.

Until then, please do keep reading. Cheerio!